Profile[]
Denis Dyack[]
Legacy of Kain: Defiance... -_-[]
Denis.
Denis.
...
And one more thing:
Legacy of Kain begs to ****ing differ. That being said, they know a hell of alot more than the fanboys who seem to think THEY themselves do.
Design manager Amy Hennig at Naughty Dog says hi. 11 out of 12 designers and 2 out of 3 lead designers who are no longer involved with SK beg to ****ing differ. It's high time Dyack apologists stop milking a 10 year-old game for credit in a desperate attempt at damage control.Denis
Just wanted to point out that Kit has no clue.
dose[]
Some Soul Reaver/Legacy of Kain news[]
NOT NEW GAME RELATED
NOT NEW GAME RELATED
Great thread still, but damn if I don't hate you Mama.
LTTP: Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver 2[]
[]
- Back to contents
- http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=512519
- http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=512519&page=2
- http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=512519&page=3
- http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=512519&page=4
- http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=512519&page=5
- http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=512519&page=6
- http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=512519&page=7
- http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=512519&page=8
Square Enix confirms new Legacy of Kain game (Nosgoth, multiplayer, not CD/not at E3)[]
Goron2000[]
[]
- Back to contents
- http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=997613
- http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=997613&page=2
- http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=997613&page=3
- http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=997613&page=4
- http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=997613&page=5
- http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=997613&page=6
- http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=997613&page=7
- http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=997613&page=8
1) The game had been in development for almost 3 years when squeenix shut it down
2) The project lead had no interest in Legacy of Kain and was quoted as saying "Soul Reaver was garbage". My coworker went on to say that the guy had terrible ideas and what they had at the end was a mish mash of poorly put together half ideas.
3) It was hot trash and needed a bullet put in it.
Any hopes for the future?
Keir_Eidos[]
Kain and Raziel playable in Guardian of Light.[]
Cool stuff, though it is odd with the whole voices thing. Is this an actual planned download pack? Maybe they'll do something about it before it releases.
Mama Robotnik[]
Legacy of Kain - Cancelled Sequel[]
This website is the portfolio of game artist, Aaron Hausmass, who is credited as artist for 25 to Life (Eidos), Medal of Honour: Airborne (EA), and The SiN Episodes (Valve). A section of the portfolio is devoted to "LEGACY OF KAIN - CANCELLED SEQUEL". Take a look...
http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo59/mappster131/th_KainSceen_01.jpghttp://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo59/mappster131/th_KainSceen_02.jpghttp://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo59/mappster131/th_KainSceen_03.jpghttp://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo59/mappster131/th_KainSceen_04.jpghttp://s361.photobucket.com/albums/oo59/mappster131/KainSceen_05.jpghttp://s361.photobucket.com/albums/oo59/mappster131/KainSceen_06.jpg
http://s361.photobucket.com/albums/oo59/mappster131/KainSceen_07.jpghttp://s361.photobucket.com/albums/oo59/mappster131/KainSceen_08.jpghttp://s361.photobucket.com/albums/oo59/mappster131/KainSceen_09.jpghttp://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo59/mappster131/th_LOK_CrystalRocks_01.jpghttp://s361.photobucket.com/albums/oo59/mappster131/LOK_Pillars_01.jpghttp://s361.photobucket.com/albums/oo59/mappster131/LOK_SpikeSet_01.jpg
http://s361.photobucket.com/albums/oo59/mappster131/LOK_Statues_01.jpghttp://s361.photobucket.com/albums/oo59/mappster131/LOK_WeaponSet_01.jpghttp://s361.photobucket.com/albums/oo59/mappster131/LOK_WindowSet_01.jpgThe screenshots don't give away much. It appears to be a last-gen development using the Defiance engine. The environments are highly reminiscent of the Soul-Reaver era Nosgoth, thousands of years after the events of the other games. Indeed, this assumption fits in well with the unmade chapter of Defiance, set in Nosgoth's hellish future. Given the GUI is a blood vial, the limited information could suggest that Kain returns to his empire to try and restore the world. Perhaps I'm reading too much into it.
As a die-hard Legacy of Kain fan (having wrote FAQs to hack the games, and even moderated the Largest LOK community on the web in the past), it is nice to have some certainty on the series. It seems that, regrettably, the Legacy of Kain series has ended. At least Defiance provided some degree of closure to one of the greatest gaming stories ever told.To give this topic a bit more meat, who would you like to see the LOK license passed on to? And which was your favourite game in the series?
EDIT
http://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq149/mappster132/Main_LegacyOfKain.jpg
Scroll down for more info and screenshots...http://rungy.us/ is the website of Ranjeet Singhal, an animator and artist who has worked on many games, including Legacy of Kain: Defiance. A screenshot in the models section of his website shows something I have never seen before - the presence of the younger, Blood-Omen era Kain in the Defiance engine. It appears to be an improved version of the Blood Omen 2 model, with uniform inspired by Soul Reaver. An interesting curiousity this, the text says it is related to Blood Omen 2, but the environment is from a much more recent game.
http://s361.photobucket.com/albums/oo59/mappster131/kain_screen4.jpgTake a look at his resume:
Director of Art and Animation Technology
Created and documented all Art Dept production processes. Worked with Crystal Dynamics to finish and ship Legacy of Kain Defiance and we did about 6 months of work on a sequel before it was cancelled by Eidos. Mostly art tech tasks here, pipeline debugging, Mel script support for character pose pasting and rig setups.http://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq149/mappster132/Main_LegacyOfKain.jpg
The cancelled game was called LEGACY OF KAIN: THE DARK PROPHECY, and I've found another artists's promotional site with a ton of screenshots.
http://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq149/mappster132/th_LegacyofKain_1.jpghttp://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq149/mappster132/th_LegacyofKain_2.jpghttp://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq149/mappster132/th_LegacyofKain_3.jpg
http://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq149/mappster132/th_LegacyofKain_4.jpghttp://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq149/mappster132/th_LegacyofKain_5.jpghttp://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq149/mappster132/th_LegacyofKain_6.jpg
http://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq149/mappster132/th_LegacyofKain_7.jpghttp://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq149/mappster132/th_LegacyofKain_8.jpghttp://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq149/mappster132/th_LegacyofKain_9.jpghttp://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq149/mappster132/th_LegacyofKain_10.jpghttp://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq149/mappster132/th_LegacyofKain_11.jpghttp://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq149/mappster132/th_LegacyofKain_12.jpg
http://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq149/mappster132/th_LegacyofKain_13.jpghttp://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq149/mappster132/th_LegacyofKain_14.jpghttp://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq149/mappster132/th_LegacyofKain_15.jpghttp://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq149/mappster132/th_LegacyofKain_16.jpghttp://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq149/mappster132/th_LegacyofKain_17.jpghttp://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq149/mappster132/th_LegacyofKain_18.jpg
http://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq149/mappster132/th_LegacyofKain_19.jpghttp://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq149/mappster132/th_LegacyofKain_20.jpgThe game seems to have been much further along than I had anticipated before it was cancelled. The premise appears to involve Kain between his Blood Omen 2 Warlord, and Soul Reaver Dark-God states.
Damn, I would have played this game!I'm still investigating this, hopefully there is more to be unearthed.
Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain was one of the first games to enrapture me with atmosphere, combining a brilliant script, atmospheric music, hypnotic cut-scenes, and some truly unconventional environments. It's made in a 2D overhead view, but more realistic shades than stylised art. Though a comparison in combat style and perspective can be drawn to 2D Zelda, the game abandons any traditional formulaic approach. The world isn't what it seems, good is bad, bad is good, and everyone is a shade in between. The story is intelligent and epic, unlike any I've encountered, and backed up with the best voice acting the industry has to offer. Nosgoth is a world quite unlike any other I've ever explored, and its monsters' don't always look the part.
http://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr310/mappster133/1.jpghttp://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr310/mappster133/2.jpghttp://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr310/mappster133/3.jpghttp://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr310/mappster133/4.jpghttp://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr310/mappster133/5.jpghttp://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr310/mappster133/6.jpghttp://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr310/mappster133/7.jpghttp://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr310/mappster133/8.jpg
If you (or anyone reading) can find the PC version, it lacks the PS1's unfortunate loading times and boasts superior visuals.Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver is a game still ahead of its time today. To quote what I said in the Favourite intro movie thread:
http://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr310/mappster133/a1.jpghttp://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr310/mappster133/a2.jpghttp://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr310/mappster133/a3.jpghttp://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr310/mappster133/a4.jpg
http://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr310/mappster133/a5.jpghttp://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr310/mappster133/a6.jpghttp://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr310/mappster133/a7.jpghttp://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr310/mappster133/a8.jpgI apologise if this reads like the deluded advertising of a desperate fanboy, but this series deserves far more praise than exposure than it gets. As my avatar testifies, I am a driven fan of the Legacy of Kain.
In particular, evidence that the series was going to feature a young (vampire?) Kain, a wolf transformation for Kain, and something described as a "beast mode". Since these features have not been in any of the games (and are not listed on The Lost Worlds as cut material), I'm leaning to the idea that they were cut concepts from The Dark Prophecy.
http://i365.photobucket.com/albums/oo91/mappster74/kain_young.jpghttp://i365.photobucket.com/albums/oo91/mappster74/KainBEAST.jpg
http://i365.photobucket.com/albums/oo91/mappster74/Dire_wolf.jpg"Beast mode" seems to depict Kain undergoing the devolution that destroyed his Lieutenants in the Empire. Alternatively, it could have been simply a rage-mechanic, but the reference to the wolf as a "dire" form makes me think otherwise.
Interestingly, the site also has art for a Pre-death Ariel.These are from the portfolio of Jason Muck, updated after being offline for ages.
http://i537.photobucket.com/albums/ff331/mappster59/LegacyofKain_D_Wire_Shot01a.jpghttp://i537.photobucket.com/albums/ff331/mappster59/LegacyofKain_D_Wire_Shot01.jpghttp://i537.photobucket.com/albums/ff331/mappster59/LegacyofKain_D_Shot02f.jpghttp://i537.photobucket.com/albums/ff331/mappster59/LegacyofKain_D_Shot02d.jpg
http://i537.photobucket.com/albums/ff331/mappster59/LegacyofKain_D_MalekTunnelEntranace.jpghttp://i537.photobucket.com/albums/ff331/mappster59/LegacyofKain_D_MalekBossStatue2.jpgPlease note the filenames: Malek Boss Statue; Malek Tunnel Entrance.
This seems to confirm speculation that the snowy-fortress we have been seeing is a reimagination of Malek's Bastion, the castle of animated armour, last seen in 1996 in Blood Omen.http://s442.photobucket.com/albums/qq149/mappster132/LegacyofKain_01.jpghttp://i365.photobucket.com/albums/oo96/kindle56/Blood%20Omen%20Legacy%20Of%20Kain/MaleksBastion-FMV.png
In other news, VG247 and Superannuation have found some art for another unreleased, unnanounced or cancelled Crystal Dynamics game called "Downfall".Oh how I'd like a new game in Nosgoth, with one of those famous Final-Fantasy budgets!
Or of course give it to Amy and Naughty Dog, have them use their Uncharted tech to really bring Nosgoth's depravity, danger and decadence to life!For the interested, I've just discovered the blog of the Gaston Brothers, who worked at Ritual when Dark Prophecy was being made. Loads of concept art showing the game's reimagining of the Hylden, far more mature and dignified that their dismal Blood Omen 2 showing.
An interesting quote confirming LOK:DP was to be the concluding game in the series.http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq236/mappster82/vampire-hunters.jpg
http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq236/mappster82/kain-hyldenwarlords.jpghttp://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq236/mappster82/kain-demon.jpg
http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq236/mappster82/kain-demon2.jpghttp://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq236/mappster82/kain-costumeset1.jpg
http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq236/mappster82/kain-character.jpghttp://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq236/mappster82/kain-character2.jpg
http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq236/mappster82/kain_hyldenfemale.jpghttp://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq236/mappster82/hylden_female_profile.jpg
http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq236/mappster82/hylden_female_a.jpghttp://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq236/mappster82/demon3.jpg
http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq236/mappster82/demon1.jpghttp://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq236/mappster82/hyldenking.jpg
http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq236/mappster82/kain-characterpaint3.jpgRaziel's story ended perfectly, when he did the one thing Kain could not, and made a choice that made him a bonafide hero.
Its always been Kain's story (helps if you started with Blood Omen). The vampire saving the world through murder. The tyrant sacrificing his empire, his children, his everything to hunt down the perfect paradox. Even through the Raziel-focused Soul Reaver, we are being the told the history of Kain''s Undead Empire, and shown the consequences of his (not Raziel's) choices. Its Kain's story.The Legacy of Kain - Remembering past games, imagining future ones.[]
It will be tremendous to play it again.
The source is Siliconera's interview with Crystal Dynamics in which they admirably ask the vital question:
Darrell Gallagher, Head of Studio: I’ll answer that one. We see the fan feedback on Legacy of Kain. There’s nothing we can talk about right now, but we can tell fans we definitely hear it.
In other news, here is a long lost video with footage from the never-seen often-denied never-released Sega Saturn version of Blood Omen. And in case you missed it, someone found a Pirate Ship in the game fourteen years after it came out.
She needs Templeman, Bell, Doyle and Jay (RIP), the best voice actors in the industry, because to have anything less for her words would be a crime.
If she's not on board then it would be regrettable. I'd risk it as long as any replacement writer was talented and proven. Care must be taken though, we don't want another Blood Omen 2 on our hands.14 years after release, a massive explorable pirate ship is found in Blood Omen: LOK[]
The PS1/PC versions are very very similar though, even both containing the same cut dialogue files I believe. I'd expect this to be present in both, and the PSN release.
(I always liked that speech by Mortanius, shifts him more towards tragic-hero status, and should have stayed in the game).So, while though the environment, enemies and secrets all seem to work perfectly, the designated entrace to the secret is sealed somehow, and that's why the trainer is used.
I wonder how this happend, such a simple thing really. I wonder if it was meant to be one of those mist-form cracks that somehow they forgot to add in?Still - I consider the OP accurate in that, the various and numerous hackers who have explored the game have not made the discovery in fourteen years either.
maybe?
As I said earlier, I can provide a save file if anyone needs it.
Legacy of Kain: The Dark Prophecy/Blood Omen III (cancelled game)[]
Kain and Raziel playable in Guardian of Light.[]
http://youtube.com/watch?v=NNcPa8ZrFHo (watch with the mute on for reduced voice confusion, trust me on this).
http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo197/mappster78/kainraz1.jpghttp://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo197/mappster78/kainraz2.jpg
http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo197/mappster78/kainraz3.jpghttp://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo197/mappster78/kainraz4.jpg
http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo197/mappster78/kainraz6.jpghttp://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo197/mappster78/kainraz5.jpg
Its nice to see Crystal Dynamics dust off their best characters again, its a shame they couldn't mute the contrasting voices though and just have them playing together silently.(Oh, there's also another pack for some other people who have probably been in a game or something).
http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo197/mappster78/legacy-of-kain-soul-reaver-2.jpg
And so did I.(I think Joystiq's poll understands the correct way to answer this question).
A month a two ago, Legacy of Kain Anthology was released in Poland:
http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo197/mappster78/1184.jpgA Steam bundle like that would be great.
Blood Omen is still my favourite in the series, but I can understand its exclusion as its an absolute nightmare running on Windows 7. It would be nice if they could include the PS1 original in an emulation wrapper but I'm sure that's a legal quagmire in itself.The result: massive victory for Legacy of Kain in all three mediums, something like a ratio of six people asking for LOK over K&L.
The outcome: They release the Kane and Lynch pack first.Huh?
I'm not holding my breath, but its as pleasant an explanation as any.
Its certainly a lot of nonsense dialogue though, lines taken from the various games (and some unrecognised outtakes), all mashed jarringly together to make what could possibly called a story. Its a shame that the money paid didn't get the voice actors back into the studio to record a new sidestory but what's done is done. Its certainly abrasive to see the brilliant series dialogue (and Blood Omen 2) cut together in a fashion, but its at least a pleasant reminder of the LOK games. I've smirked a couple of times at the daftness.
Only done the first level though (have not played the game at all before) and it certainly seems to be rather fun.Keep trying to shift into the spectral realm and glide off cliffs though, force of habit.
The daft random LOK dialogue continues, its complete nonsense really. Was hoping for something a bit more for my money, maybe some unique abilities or anything.
They've also blatantly not done any lip-syncing or motion for Kain talking, as the camera cuts away from him or faces the back of this head every time he says something!Well, its amused me at least. Probably worth the 400 points as a novelty.
"Legacy of Kain: Revenant" or Obsidian Blood/Dead Sun [Square Enix survey rumour][]
Reader daverabbit stumbled over the possibility of a new Legacy of Kain game. He writes:
So I'm part of a website where you get paid to take online surveys and today I took one that asked me what I thought about different possible names for a Legacy of Kain game. Has there been any news about a new game in this series that I have missed or did I stumble across something here?The four names were Obsidian Blood, Obsidian Sun, Dead Sun, and Revenant. They also asked if the names sounded good alone or tagged with any of the Legacy of Kain/Soul Reaver/Blood Omen names used previously.
Surveys I've taken in the past have had the product later show up on store shelves so I figured I would share this info with you guys.With E3 2011 right around the corner, you can be sure that Game Revolution will issue any news on the long list of titles Square Enix is bringing to the big show. Check out our E3 2011 tag page for the latest.
Which of the above titles do you think is fitting of the next game in the Legacy of Kain?After all these years, its probably not going to be a story continuation, ala the cancelled Legacy of Kain: The Dark Prophecy / Blood Omen III. I'd expect that to try and make the series accessible to newer audiences (and not to terrify potential customers away with the insane backstory), they might be looking at a reimagining or distant continuation.
As we literally have no other information, and this rumour may or may not have any basis to it, lets get the excitement flowing anyway with this impressive remake of Raziel by pschoart. Awesome fanart.http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u323/mappster54/042_large.jpg
I still find it hilarious that on Crystal Dynamics' Facebook page, every time they post anything, about their staff, Tomb Raider or even Merry Christmas, two dozen Legacy of Kain fans pile in the comments box demanding a sequel.I suppose that shows how diverse her talent is. Uncharted couldn't be more different to her incredible Legacy of Kain writing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMrou_zJNtcI still think this is the most beautifully written cutscene (and probably best voice acted) in all of gaming. Kain's desperation to not be the stereotypical "last boss" is intense.
My preference would be a distant continuation, ala Soul Reaver and Doctor Who. They continued their respective franchises by reintroducing us to their changed world, slightly distant from the immediate events of the last game/episode, and over time gradually introduced explicit references to the continuity. The continuation of Doctor Who did the same.
If you watch opening sequence of Soul Reaver, a player new to the franchise could easily think this is the first game in a series. It uses Blood Omen as the distant basis for creating its world, and tells a great story in its own right without needing to have played the previous entry.They could, for example, set any theoretical new game at some point in the far far future just like Soul Reaver did, adding to the continuity without ignoring it. Or they could even take the opposite approach, and have Kain flung into the far, far past, presenting a world in which the mystic Ancients and the rational Hylden play out their cold war in an increasingly human world. Kain, of course, would be the traveller from the far future, the outsider to this introduced world.
Or not, I'm just throwing ideas out.What I'm trying to get across though is an immediate continuation of Defiance, directly following the very complicated story it tells, may not an accessible and profitable game make. At the same time, given the existing fanbase is almost completely driven by the story of the games, a reboot risks alienating this dedicated audience. So yeah, I'd advocate a distant continuation I think.
What retcon?
Its character development, and there are numerous encounters, events and revelations that explain exactly why Raziel chose this future. Heck, you can see this change of attitude towards Kain plainly as the games progress:
Soul Reaver - Opening - Raziel is filled with rage and will mindlessly murder Kain.Soul Reaver - Pillars - Raziel berates Kain before trying to kill him.
Soul Reaver - Ending - Raziel questions Kain on his actions and on the visions of twisted futures, before trying to kill him.Soul Reaver 2 - Opening - Raziel sees the beautiful, stable Nosgoth and interacts with the serpent Moebius. This interaction leads him to realise there is something more sinister about The Elder. Raziel realises that his supposed allies may be directing his rage for a reason.
Soul Reaver 2 - Pillars - Kain invites Raziel to witness history, and explains that they are now in the past for a reason. Raziel begins to feel purpose again, and narrates "I don't know what impulse stayed my hand" in letting Kain go. Raziel begins to think of the bigger picture for the first time. He's still enraged, but he's thinking for himself now.Soul Reaver 2 - William's Chapel - Raziel decides that he no longer wants to be vengeful character in written history, and abandons his rage. He sees Kain, condemns him for playing manipulative games, and turns his back on him to leave. Its a monumental moment of character development.
Soul Reaver 2 - Dark future - Raziel meets Kain again and mocks him for the drama of his appearances. They joke. For the first time we see a hint of the old relationship of father and son.Soul Reaver 2 - Ending - Kain saves Raziel
Defiance - Kain does EVERYTHING HE CAN to save Raziel.There is no retcon here. The reason the series is so praised for its writing and characters are that they are believable in their choices and changes. Raziel's progress from ragemonster to noble hero, and his final fitting choice is beautifully done.
No retcon.The way I read his original post was that he felt that Raziel's change in motivation (and development as a character) throughout the games was somehow a retcon, and that's really, really strange.
That Elder quote is probably the best example. The other two inconsistencies for me would be the continuous reaquisition of the Fire Reaver, and the complete vanishing of the constrict ability following Soul Reaver.
http://www.gamepro.com/article/news/219539/rumor-legacy-of-kain-getting-a-reboot/
http://www.thegamingvault.com/2011/05/legacy-of-kain-reboot-rumoured/http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-05-23-survey-points-to-legacy-of-kain-revival
Interestingly, in the comments section on the last link, someone posted this:Legacy of Kain 6 - The first section of the unreleased game[]
http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t342/mappster38/1.jpg
http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t342/mappster38/omnicide000018.jpghttp://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t342/mappster38/omnicide000021.jpg
http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t342/mappster38/omnicide0000100.jpgIts a HD remake of Blood Omen called "Blood Omnicide". I like the look of it:
http://omnicide.legacy-of-kain.ru/Regarding the Sequel vs Reboot vs HD Remakes route, I'd suggest a different direction.
I'd like to see the series return as a distant continuation. This is the route taken by the original Soul Reaver and the new Doctor Who. It preserves canon and nods to it, without being held back by its weight. It could introduce a new entry that is so far into the future, it becomes an entirely new, accessible game, as Soul Reaver was from Blood Omen.It would be beneficial as (1) the game would be accessible to new audiences, and (2) the major fans of the series focus primarily on the story above all other concerns, and wouldn't lose their investment in the characters.
Perhaps a game set after the fall of Kain's Empire, in which Kain's purification is slowly reversing (or at least stabalising) Nosgoth's collapse. You could even introduce a different playable character (so it would be their game), and return Kain to his NPC role ala Soul Reaver. That's a game I'd like to play.Soul Reaver 1 is great on PC bumped up to high resolution, but the definitive port is the Dreamcast version. As a game it holds up very well with gameplay reminiscent of Metroid.
Soul Reaver 2 looks beautiful and has possibly the most intelligently-delivered time-travel story in all of gaming. Its not quite as freeform as Soul Reaver 1, but by this point you'll be playing for the next twist. Defiance is playable, but your patience for its unique camera system may depend on how invested in the story you have become.They are collectively the best acted, best written and best presented story in gaming. In my humble opinion, of course.
A clarification made (only a minor one) is that in the OP I said that "In Defiance both the Hylden and the Ancients predicted Raziel and Kain's fateful battle at Avernus".
This has been pointed out to be an error in my memory. The Hylden and the Vampires predicted Raziel's existence, but both assumed him to be their champion. They did not predict his battle with Kain, but more the endless battle with himself.It does however still support the flow of events I have listed. The two ancient races had their own prophecies about a pivotal figure in Nosgoth's future - Raziel. It makes sense that they would have their own prophecies of the other pivotal figure - Kain. We saw the vampires own prophecy regarding him in Legacy of Kain: Defiance - the final "Scion of Balance" prophecy.
The Hylden equivalent to this was not shown. This prophecy, their interpretation of Kain's existence and future, is what I assume to be "The Dark Prophecy".Does it still hold up today? I have a BC PS3 that I was thinking of playing it on.
If you are referring to its visuals, its best you decide for yourself:
http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo44/mappster85/pillarsundespectral.jpghttp://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo44/mappster85/SR2TheElder.jpg
http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo44/mappster85/Moebius-Worried.jpghttp://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo44/mappster85/Timemachine2.jpg
http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo44/mappster85/SR2RazielholdingMaterialReaver.jpghttp://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo44/mappster85/SR2PillarsSide2.jpg
http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo44/mappster85/SR2PillarsChamber.jpgPersonally I think it still looks pretty damn great, mainly thanks to the absolutely fantastic architecture and unusual design work. I'm biased though, of course.
http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq39/mappster73/Intro1pillars.jpg
http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq39/mappster73/kainthroneh.jpghttp://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq39/mappster73/cliffs.jpg
http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq39/mappster73/soulreaverinhd.jpg
http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq39/mappster73/soulreaverpillars2.jpghttp://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq39/mappster73/soulreaverdumahi.jpg
http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq39/mappster73/soulreaverkain.jpgI think that's pretty impressive for what is essentially a PS1 port.
As his period at the studio was during Legacy of Kain 6's development, and as Ritual had no other contribution to the other Legacy of Kain titles, the only logical assumption is that it was from the cancelled game.
I've posted my finds over at Nosgothic Realm and the Eidos Forums, and a potential reawakening of Raziel has been a point of discussion. Like most, I agree that it is not needed and would harm the significance of the entire Soul Reaver arc. Raziel's story is done, and Amy Hennig brought it to an incredible conclusion.I'm hoping that the render is part of a flashback or something, but making Raziel a playable character again would be detrimental to the story lore and take focus away from Kain's next move.
Another point of discussion is the revelation of further reaver forges, which most of the hardcore LOK fans at the other forums feel is just repeating ground that was covered in SR1/2/Defiance and I'm inclined to agree.I really think the future of the series is literally in the future of Nosgoth, in the era beyond Kain's decayed Empire. I'd leave the time travel aspects out of the series now, as brilliant as they are for the dedicated fans they are nigh-on inpenetrable for new players.
Given that Kain (and by association part of the Pillar of Balance) has been healed, this could be used as a plot device to give Future Nosgoth stability and perhaps a degree of recovery. With Kain currently on adventures thousands of years into the past, the Lieutenants all dead, and the vampires of the era no more than feral animals lacking any leadership, it may be time for the humans to rise once again.Playing one of these Vampiure Hunters who tries to reclaim the land (and is perhaps infected with vampirism) exploring the secrets of Kain's buried Empire, with Kain himself as a NPC could be a fun place to start. It would give us a new Nosgoth to explore, a new character and a new direction for the story while respecting and referencing past events for the hardcore fans. It would an approachable idea for anything thinking of jumping on board too, and follows the Distant-Continuation idea that was implemented in the mega-successful Soul Reaver 1.
-Having one world in one period in time should allow a return of the exploration elements of the earlier games. Soul Reaver 2 and Defiance, by their nature as games requiring leaps through timezones and timestreams, did not give us enough to explore and unearth, and this was very much missed.
-In terms of the story, we know the past very well now. The future is by far the most uncertain, especially now that Kain is no longer acting as a corrupt anchor pulling the world into the abyss.-It would be by far the most accessible way for new players to jump on board, and hopefully lead to financial success for the brand. Legacy of Kain 6's possible story as I've pieced together, still has Kain stuck in the past, and sounds like it would have still been mired in the lore rather than making some distance between it.
However that was the status before Kain overloaded the Pillars in Blood Omen and exploded the entire system. At that moment the binding collapsed, giving the Hylden and Demons access to the land. Since we know that Nosgoth can exist and survive without the Pillars (the time of the Ancients and the Hylden), it makes sense that the broken pillars symbiotically connected to one corrupt guardian, are poisoning the land and leading to the collapse of existence seen happening in Soul Reaver.
What I'm trying to say is that the entire system is fucked, and Kain's sacrifice will not restore it anymore. That sacrifice could have only happened at one place in space and time - the end of Blood Omen.But to say that it would have immediately restored the Pillars and enabled them to choose new guardians, I consider to be an assumption too far. The destruction of the Pillars, as per Janos' reaction, was catastrophic and irreversible.
My interpretation is that the remains of the Pillars were tainting the land due to their link to the one corrupt guardian. With that link healed, the remains of the Pillars may stop poisoning the land and perhaps allow Nosgoth to very slowly return to its pre-Pillars state.I don't see them having the capabity of choosing new guardians at all. However, we don't know for certain either way.
Kain's last words in Defiance are not something he would have ever said before his healing. They are tremendously significant I feel.
I feel that he isn't talking about hope for himself as you'd normally expect given his character. He's talking about hope for the world.His healing may have a significant affect on him. It has, after all, restored him to the position he was born for - the balancing force for the entire world.
A post-mortem of Silicon Knights (Mama Robotnik research thread)[]
Partner: Possibly Nintendo
Status: Dies with the studio
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-03-23-too-human-got-a-bad-rap-sequels-still-possible-says-dyack/http://i.minus.com/iLDVEfpeoLv33.gif
There were only three candidates:Legacy of Kain: an extremely unlikely possibility given the how viciously Crystal Dynamics and SK parted way.
Too Human:highly unlikely to be anyone’s “most requested”.Eternal Darkness popular and feasible.
Therefore, the only reasonable conclusion would be thus: Silicon Knights were returning to their last recent hit, Eternal Darkness. Back in 2006, Dyack confirmed that this was going to be the plan all along:http://www.ign.com/blogs/silicon-knights/2006/07/06/creating-universes-blog-10/http://i.imgur.com/lfzwW.gif
Back in June this year, Shiggy posted this on NeoGAF.http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=477741/http://i.imgur.com/WmBx0.gif
Given how Shiggy has proven to be accurate with regularity, it caused a bit of a storm. Sites picked up the story, and Dyack issued a statement:http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-06-11-silicon-knights-sees-layoffs-says-nintendo-rumor-has-no-basis-in-fact/http://i.imgur.com/XO3zR.gif
Andrew McMillen’s investigation, in which multiple sources from Silicon Knights were interviewed, corroborates Shiggy and contradicts Denis:http://uk.kotaku.com/5955223/what-went-wrong-with-silicon-knights-x+men-destiny/http://i.imgur.com/X45OP.gif
At least one portfolio website of a former Silicon Knights concept artist seems to make reference to the project – suggesting that the ambition was for a 360/PS3/WiiU release.http://www.jonathanstanding.com/Info.html/http://i.imgur.com/aJIin.gif
How this multi-format release would have worked - given Nintendo’s ambiguous partial ownership of the Eternal Darkness IP – is unclear. Regardless, with X-Men Destiny a critical and commercial bomb, and reportedly only five employees remaining in the once hundreds-strong organisation, Eternal Darkness II is almost certainly utterly cancelled. Penny Arcade can explain SK’s current toxicity in a way better than I:http://penny-arcade.com/report/editorial-article/silicon-knights-to-destroy-games-code-and-give-up-millions-in-epic-lawsuit-/http://i.imgur.com/MnoLz.gif
I may have found some media from the project.I have found a portfolio belonging to a former Silicon Knights 3D Character Artist, with renders from unspecified cancelled projects – along with his work on Too Human. The first folder (uploaded in June 2012) shows the above image and the below thumbnails.tbc
Thanks for the correction feedback too - think I've misread The Crucible situation and will fix that. Plus the errors and word mixups - proof reading is an area in which I genuinely struggle.
Also, thanks for crediting me to the various websites that have ran with the story - I've had repeated problems in the past with sites crediting themselves for my work, so it's great to see that doesn't seem to happen any more.(1) I had to include the story that tensions were so high during Silicon Knights/Crystal Dynamics collaboration that the police were called in:
http://gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2013/02/25/something-in-the-water-crystal-dynamics-in-the-90s.aspx?PostPageIndex=4/http://i.imgur.com/QohAE82.gif(2) A load of new media from The Box:
http://i.imgur.com/LGnKbpa.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/TUvL5yS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/dZQkksO.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/cSWBv5A.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/UAi9skQ.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/VAQANxf.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/qMeph5g.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/efUG0LE.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/orlhkto.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/G6frRtt.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/aHq1kFI.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/vpaxzYU.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/ZIvpT7b.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/4fd7lCo.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/yp95iVX.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/8TzLISo.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/PUMfg0r.jpg
(3) I've removed the incorrect references to THQ's The Ritualist - despite the speculation at the time it was not a SK game.
(4) I've added in Shiggy's own fantastic material that he has posted throughout the thread, with thanks.http://i.imgur.com/80wINOV.jpg
(Source: Matthew Lau)According to Matthew's resume, he worked at Silicon Knights back in 2008 on multiple game development concepts. The image of a possessed magical-empowered Roman centurion is strongly connected to the Eternal Darkness mythos. Could this have been a very early take on a direct sequel to ED?
I'm speculating that Pious Augustus returned to Rome with a disguise of humanity - though those magically attuned could still see the glow of his eyes.Some Soul Reaver/Legacy of Kain news[]
I have a question about Defiance's deleted chapters. Since it's been a nearly ten years after the game release probably you can reveal something you know?
I am interested in deleted final chapter. Can you give any hint how Kain was supposed to take out the Elder God? Just a little hint.Thanks for your question. Hmmm.. I don't think there was anything deleted out of the end of Defiance. It wrapped up the way it was supposed to: Raziel's cycle was complete, Kain was given a chance at hope, and the Elder God, though defeated, was set up to be an adversary in the next game. Except.. there was no next game. LOL. If Kain were to ever defeat the Elder God, I am sure it would require the restoration of the pillars and somehow 'pinning him down' before finishing him off with some Epic use of the Soul Reaver. It could be a level or the intent of a whole game to beat him, involving multiple locations where you track him down and destroy key areas that he dwells in or uses as anchors to keep himself in our world. In any case it shouldn't be a single encounter or small thing to beat him...
Hope that answers your question.According to the Lost Words, Defiance was supposed to have the final chapter, where Kain was suppoed to return in the SR era and restore the world.
Have and Amy you ever duscussed what is the Elder God? Does he really control the Wheel of Fate?Oh yeah, I totally forgot about Kain going back to SR1. I vaguely remember something about Kain going to the future SR1, using the blade to purify the pillars then going back to Pre-BO1 era time to leave the Soul Reaver at the base of the pillars. (For William the Just or Moebius to find) This was a very loose set of ideas, and we it wasn't so much deleted content as a rough idea we didn't have time to implement. By the time we got to the end of the game, we wanted to leave it open ended so it could help set up the next one. (See how that turned out.. )
m, so the blade was supposed to be used to restore the Pillars? This leads to another question...At the end of Defiance Raziel says: "The two become one... both Soul Reavers - together". So, I want to ask you - if Kain was supposed to use the Soul Reaver to save the world, then Amy originally intended both the purified Wraith Blade and Raziel goind into the Reaver? I am asking because later Jen and Kyle said that the purified Wraith Blade never entered the sword, but was "dispersed" into Kain.
And what is the Elder God? Have Amy ever talked about? Or he (it?) was always supposed to be uneplained evil?The purification was of Kain, not the reaver. Remember that he was always flawed and therefor any vampire he created would also be flawed (hence the devolution). The pufified spirit of every balance guardian healed Kain of those flaws.
The Reaver, with all the embued elements is a conduit. Make no mistake though.. Raziel is in that sword.
What inspired the look of the vampire wraiths in the game?
The Vampire Wraiths are a funny story. Amy had given me the description for them one day and as I had just finished work on the Sluagh. I kept churning over in my head what those fettered souls would look like. I wanted to do something super detailed, but the PS1 level graphics were pretty limited. I was pouring through all my art books to get inspiration and get into the groove. I think I went through just about everything I had at the time, from Gundam to Dark Crystal. I have a belief that when you put good things in your head, great stuff comes out. I went to bed exhausted and just let it all sink in. I woke up at 4 in the morning, unable to sleep further.. something was rattling around in my noggin'. At the time I lived a few blocks from Crystal D, so I got dressed and sort of jogged to work. I got into my drawing table and just started drawing cool shapes. I realized that, actually, the less I showed of them, the better they would look, so I grabbed my book of mummified bodies and started riffing on the design from there. (yes, I have a book of mummified bodies.. doesn't everyone?!) Looking at death shrouds and wrappings,I then grabbed my old Frazetta book and looked up Death Dealer. Then that led me to look at Alan Lee's paintings of Nazgul. Before I knew it I had knocked out the design by 8 am and had turnarounds done by 9:30 when most people started coming in. I showed my design to the programmers, and was happy that I could come up with a design that didn't require a ton of bones for the legs. ( I felt like I had used my creativity to come up with a good design that not only looked good but solved a bone count issue with some of our enemies) Hoo that became a long story, lol.At which stage of the development where the remaining Reaver forges cut from the game and why? (stone, water, sunlight, sound). I read in many reviews before SR´s release that you could imbue the Reaver with several elements but was puzzled when there was only the fire forge in the game. Do you know where in the game could Raziel find those forges?
Ah yes, the remaining forges. Let me tell you, this game ate up a lot of weekends and late nights. Even with that extra time in, we didn't have enough days to finish the game the way it was imagined. There was just too much stuff. Designers had planned the forges and powers that went along with them. One day, we had a come to Jesus moment where we just had to look at the (extremely large) overhead map and just start Xing out areas, powers, and abilities. It was painful and difficult. Each forge was tied to an ability, and each ability was supposed to unlock a new area, AND new mechanics. So it was all interwoven. Each cut was not minor.. it literally tore apart pages of well thought out design. (It was like killing your baby.. but Game Devs are the only ones who cry over it.. and people who find out about it later LOL). It was cut about 2/3 into the game. I think all the remaining glyphs were cut at the same time.. sometimes having too many ways to kill a Vampire can be bad too.. we realized there was a lot of redundancy as well. It takes resources from every department (Character, Environment, Engineering, Audio, FX, UI, Design, and Production) to get a single feature realized, so we made cuts that helped as many departments as possible, and sharpened the overall experience. (This happens EVERY GAME, btw) The locations of most forges was adjacent to a boss room.In the next [cancelled] game I wanted to have Kain be able to look BO1 humanoid but as soon as his skin touched direct sunlight, it would harden into The SR era look. That way he could walk through uschtenheim or other human cities unaccosted. I did a drawing of it on my old website under Young and the Restless Kain.
Beast and Wolf forms were supposed to make come backs. The Dire Wolf form was up for redesign, since my first pass felt too much like Raziel (skinny tummy) and Kain should feel more Burly. But they would have been fun to work on.Could you comment on this screenshot of beta on the left and retail on the right? My guesses are below the picture :D1. Looks very much like Raziel in both beta and retail. After turning its head looks like the wraith Raziel, in TLB he looks like his vampire self instead. His eyes also don't glow blue in TLB and he appears to have black tears.
2. Seems like Kain, since he is in the middle. His face changed to more inhuman bit from beta to retail.
3. My guess would be Dumah, or maybe Turel. His face also seems more human in retail version.
4. This one really puzzled me - is it Rahab or maybe the Priestess? I was really thinking that after seeing in beta, the figure has no glowing eyes and looks pretty feminine. However, in retail, eyes are red. Do you know why? :)
5. My guess would be Zephon since figure´s hair seems to match it.
6. Now I have no idea who this might be, since the change from beta to retail is pretty significant. I would say that in beta it seems to be Rahab, but in retail I have no idea..
7. This is an alternative possibly to no. 6. In beta, figure seems to have hair while in retail, he is bald (seems like Melchiah)
8. The Bearded man is a mystery, possibly Dumah or Turel?
Could you explain if these are close to what they really are?
I busted my ass on the 11th hour on this one. It was one of the last things we put in the game, and I championed it because I thought it made the game cooler. You know UI is the first thing you see in a game. I remember making the image and going "You know what would be cool.. if their faces turned to face you and they became all vampiric!" Cory Stockton was all "yeah that sounds great.. good luck with that one, dude."I hadn't realized the crapload of work it would take to make that image work, I animated each head by hand, but wasn't happy with the animation aspect of it. So I had my friend Colin put in 3D heads that were camera mapped, had them turn over a few frames, rendered it in MAX, then HAND PAINTED head frame of each head on top. I had great support from the programmers to get this in too.. technically we put it in after the content lock deadline (shhhh!) but everyone thought it was cool so we kept it. Did you guys like it? Did it freak you out at first? I hope so..
Anway, Except for Raziel, they're all abstractions of Kain and the bretheren. Red eyes are for vamps, blue is for the Reaver. I generally thought of Kain representing the middle, and you're pretty much spot on for all the statues. I wanted them to be a 'shadow knows' kind of reveal (like spectral)
1. Raziel2. Kain
3. Dumah (reminiscient of the dumahim shape)
4. Priestess (Even though she was cut.. it rounded out the image)
5. Zephon (Kind of made his representation look like a brat lol)
6.Rahab (shielding himself from the sun)
7. Melchiah (bald and hiding his percieved ugliness)
8. Turel
Who is this character and what is her story (you once referred to her as "Vorador's mystery woman" :))? All we know is that her portrait appeared in BO1 and Defiance, she's not Umah, and she's "a character who is part of the backstory and not revealed in the games".
Initially, we had the ability to create murals and pics in the game, then run them by Amy to make sure they were open ended enough for her to write in a back story if she wanted to include it. It's sort of like a 'hook' what Amy could write in if she wanted. Sometimes she asked for specific images (like William and Kain) and sometimes she let us riff a bit. This woman is one of those riffs. I created her to be someone he was fond of. In my mind she was a lost love, perhaps a powerful sorceress. It was always my hope that someone would write a good story for her after Defiance ended. Maybe one of the fans could? If it's engaging, I could draw an illustration for it. What do you think, would someone be up for it? (But it would have to be a good story.. no furries.. please.. God.. )One more Vorador question. In Defiance, he is seen with a jagged sword in one scene. Was this supposed to be the same weapon he wielded throughout BO1, or a different one?
Yes and no. The original Vorador weapon was way too close to the reaver, so we sort of retconned it with the sword you see him carrying. It made more sense since he's a blacksmith that he'd make a more signature looking weapon. It makes much more sense this way.. I think of BO1 as the TV version and Defiance as the Movie version in terms of interpretation.It's been conjectured a few times that the faces of a few of the characters were partially designed or re-designed to loosely resemble their voice actors (uh, well, the characters who have faces, that is). How true is this? I can definitely see it in Kain (Simon) and Vorador (Paul), but it would be really nice to have an official comment on it.
Actually, its sheer coincidence. I hadn't seen Paul Lukather or Simon Templeman's faces prior to designing them. Maybe it's the magic of the voices that made them look alike.. something ephemeral about voices.. trying to picture what they look like. (though everytime I meet a voice actor he's never what I think they look like. ie Lion-o haha)I would be very interested in hearing anything you have to say about designing the character of Janos Audron. I think there was speculation that Béla Lugosi's work in Dracula was a big influence, but I haven't seen any official commentary about it.
Also, in Blood Omen 1, Kain could come across a few frozen beings in the Oracle's Cave with horns and Janos-like wings; there were also statues of these beings in the rafters of Avernus Cathedral, and probably some more in a few other places. I nearly choked on my drink to discover them when replaying BO1 some time after finishing SR2; "this seemed an unlikely coincidence". :P Were you aware of these BO1 creatures when designing Janos and the ancients?
Few questions about eyes. With only a few exceptions (such as Rahab), almost every single vampire seen throughout the series has yellow eyes. Is this deliberate? Is it perhaps a side-effect of the Hylden blood curse?
A couple of other characters also have unique eyes: Moebius and Turel both have washed-out, desaturated pupils - almost like cataracts - and Mortanius seems to have no pupils at all in Defiance. When Janos is possessed by the Hylden Lord in Defiance, his pupils also seem to disappear or fade. What is the reasoning behind these design elements?
Obviously Turel's could relate to his blindness, and Mortanius to his possession, but that still leaves Moebius. Somebody came up with an interesting theory that it has something to do with his knowledge of the future: Kain says in SR1 that "as a man, I could never have contained such forbidden truths". Well, Moebius is a man who has to contain them, and it's ruined his vision. :lol:
Vampires had yellow eyes, Rahab's changed because he was becoming water resistant.
Regarding The Dark Prophecy, I'm particularly curious about one thing. When Divine Shadow first uncovered it, he came across this image, which was created by Ritual Entertainment, and seems to depict Kain transitioning into his SR1 emperor incarnation, probably some time not long after BO2. You had also painted a "Young Kain Proposal" in 2002, which was up at spectraljin.com.
As a result, we all started speculating that The Dark Prophecy might have been intended to follow the structure of Defiance, but with players alternating between young and old Kain instead of Kain and Raziel. That's an idea I think could've had enormous potential if done right, but was it ever seriously considered for TDP? If not, do you know if young Kain supposed to appear anyway?
This is regarding Umah and Vorador´s appearance in Defiance.
What was Umah´s intended role in Defiance and where would she appear? Would she encounter Raziel or Kain?Also, this concept which you drew of her:
http://thelostworlds.net/Defiance/Images/Umah-01-Concept-DC-Umah-01.JPG
Have you drawn her as a human or a vampire in that picture? Jake and I are wondering, because the colour of her eyes and her skin seems unnatural to a regular human and she seems to be wearing Voradors symbol. So we are thinking she is either a vampire worshipper or a vampire. Thanks a lot!
Did Vorador originally appear more times than in the final game? Was his resurrection (as he is in BO2) planned to be explained? If so, can you tell us who would resurrect him after his beheading by Moebius´ mob?
Umah was intended to be a vampire worshipper/consort to Vorador. As you correctly guessed, she was to play a similar role to the Vampire Priestess originally envisioned in Soul Reaver. Dangit, we could never get one in the game! LOL She was always meant to be 'special' and quite a powerful sorceress, hence the eyes. But the concept you have is meant for a human Umah, with lavender eyes. (she has too much of a tan to be a vampire)She wears Vorador's symbol because she's meant to be part of his clan, soon to be transformed into a vampire. I think when Raziel visits Vorador after he is beheaded, your job is to go to the statute holding his head, retrieve it, and bring it to his body. Much the same as the way Janos was resurrected, Raz would help raise Vorador. Umah was the mission giver and as a reward would be turned into a vampire.
We had to do a lot of reconciliation with BO2... and had to cut it for time. (also, the fact that Raz would rez both Vorador AND Janos seemed.. redundant)
It's important to remember one thing: Defiance was a part of the SR trilogy with Raziel as the hero. It wasn't about giving equal screen time to Kain.. He already stole a ton of spotlight with his few chapters.
I don't think BO2 Kain would have been good because then Vorador would 'owe Kain one' so to speak.
Kain did have a mission in Vorador's mansion but I think it was to meet living Vorador. We wanted to have Kain be able to summon him afterwards with the ring. Vorador seeing how powerful Kain had become would be distrustful.. And would pass that to his clan (ie Umah)
There was also the idea you could see Umah being turned
still makes sense as he was up against the Sarafan Lord right? Vorador probably returned this favor by building him an army.
So I guess it could have been rewritten to be either the old or the young Kain to end up doing it?
Yeah it was actually more of a huge deal to see a Vampire being made, since that wasn't something that was ever shown. Traditional 'embrace' or some bizarre Necromancy?
Raziel had to resurrect Vorador to show that A) he had he power of 'jump starting' bodies with his power and B) needed something important from him to find Janos. It was all really to reconcile BO2. (and there was a lot of.. reconciling.. to do)That said, elder Kain rezzing him would have been cool too. There'd be a cool smackdown talk there.
Was the young Kain supposed to make an appearance during the game?
Yes, and believe me I was broken hearted when we canceled that part. But it happened before I could put any art resources on it, so it wasn't as painful as cutting out finished characters or anything like that. Would have been fun though! I wanted to redesign BO1 Kain's armor..MORE QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS ARE AT THE TOP OF PAGE TWO OF THIS THREAD.
That's everything. I know its not a new game, but for fans of the franchise, I hope there have been things of interest here.I'm not quite sure how to word these questions, so bear with me please. I'm aware that this particular game is rather divisive in some ways, and am very respectful that the team that made it clearly had their own sense of vision for the game. I am also aware that you were not part of the team that worked on it Daniel. I'm still hoping you may be able to offer some insight with these few questions:
Well BO2 was a completely different team, and they had a lot of their own ideas about the direction they wanted to go. I had a few friends on that team, so I can only say that I wish we'd worked more closely together and collaborated. But even in the best environments, you'll have people who want to make their own statements and go their own way. There was a lot of people who didn't quite get Soul Reaver at Crystal and Eidos. The higher ups wanted more overtly sexual elements with a simpler story and I think that had a lot of influence on BO2. (Additionally Steve Ross had his own style and that had a heavy influence on BO2.) Marketing guys just wanted an easy, marketable design. (Like Doc Martens on Raziel.. *SHUDDER*) SR was a delicate balance of sensibilities, and it was difficult enough for our team to stay on task, so there was a lot of divergence.How much say did the Soul Reaver team have with the Blood Omen 2 project - if any at all? There are many contradictions and clashes, in terms of plot, characterisation and tone that really set this entry apart from the rest of the franchise. Kain is quite simple, Vorador has somehow transitioned into a benevolent revolutionary, and an ancient race are portrayed as evil aliens. When replayed, it really does seem to stand out. The great themes of Blood Omen 1, Soul Reaver 1,2 and Defiance are wholly absent - oppression, corruption, acceptance and defiance of fate, betrayal, vengeance and overcoming rage, very little of this comes across.
SR didn't have any influence on BO2. They had creative autonomy. I did raise a few facts when talking to their artists and designers (Uh.. hey.. Vorador's dead you know.. why do you have him in the beginning of the game?) But by and large the most we could do was insure consistency with things like the Reaver. I think that the lack of collaboration between teams ultimately hurt us both, and is pretty evident in the final product(s).Did anyone at Crystal Dynamics wince when, on the back of the Blood Omen 2 boxart, the phrase "PLAY AS KAIN - THE MOST EVIL CHARACTER TO EVER APPEAR IN A VIDEO GAME" was written at the top of the blurb in big red letters? Expanding on that, were there any marketing decisions made that you felt did not do the games justice?
We all winced. (see above for marketing decisions) Doc Martens on Raziel, the stupid commercials on TV (people dying darwin-esque deaths of incredible stupidity.. but at least 'they still have their soul' *facepalm*) Like I said, a lot of people didn't get the whole 'city of lost children/lost steampunk' vibe we were going for.. And they sure as heck didn't know what the path of a Gnostic hero was. So mainly it was 'Rawr blood and souls!' Though I do have to give it to them.. I liked Defiance's cover a lot. I wanted them to make a holographic cover for SR1 that would shift realms behind Raziel, you know the kind you rotate left and right to see different images.. But it was 'cost prohibitive'. Man if only they had made a collector's box. It was after my time at Crystal that I made it a personal mission to both involve and educate marketing in the games I worked on.When making Defiance and conceptualising The Dark Prophecy - was it considered a priority to address Blood Omen 2's contradictions? For example, was The Seer intended to reappear to address her ambiguous dialogue? Was what-happened-to-Vorador (he is still alive and he shouldn't be) after Blood Omen 2 going to be explained?
BO2's contradictions were thrown 'over the fence' for the SR team to figure out. It made a lot of our storyline stuff hard to reconcile. Personally I resented it, but damn if Amy didn't come through and tie it all together. The ending of SR2 with Kain's new memories, the Hylden, etc.. she just did an amazing job considering the huge amount of crap she had to resolve. Defiance was meant to resolve Umah and Vorador. I took it as a personal challenge to make Umah alluring and less.. endowed. Hence my original concept of her with the hoodie and mysterious eyes. (Vorador has a thing for mysterious eyes)Following Blood Omen 2's portrayal of the Hylden as almost cartoon-evil villains, Defiance went some way into redeeming the race in a small way - showing that they were the victims of the Ancients' viscious war, and had spent some time buried in the primitive caves of Avernus while the Ancients occupied majestic temples and aeries. We even got to hear them in the Demon Dimension for a while, horribly tormented ("This realm will render you hideous") They were still seen as villainous though, mainly due to the Hylden General/possessed Janos/Mortanius scenes. Were any further efforts (either cut from Defiance or intended for The Dark Prophecy) going to further show us a better side to the Hylden civilisation?
They would show that even the Hylden weren't as one dimensional as you think. They went through a lot of horrible pain and disfigurement in their dimension. That would be enough to drive the most noble soul mad. But they also committed their share of atrocities.. that's why there was a huge war. (And Murals! Propaganda is important) But in DP we were going to go to the Hylden realm and you could see how it affected them.. and how they were using their magic and glyph technology to keep the influences 'at bay'One element I like about the series is that it avoids a genre cliche of over-sexualisation of the vampires. Sex simply not a factor for them - humans are "cattle", Kain and Raziel could have been straight or gay or entirely nonsexual and its not important. Blood Omen, Soul Reaver 1,2 and Defiance don't need to titillate the player with immature scantily-clad women like so many games do. Blood Omen 2 takes this in a different direction, with female designs like this and this and Kain's overt interest in Umah. Was this sexualisation of the vampires something the Soul Reaver/Defiance team intended to pursue in future games, or something best forgotten?
No we never tried to go that direction. We made the males sexy to be sure, but wanted to also make cool designs over and above that. For me, sexy isn't about how much breast or thigh you show, but rather the beauty of the design and how it compliments what you have vs trying to reveal it. We also felt if we went there, we'd lose a lot of the intellectual and higher level story. And I think everyone can see if we were right when you compare the two games. They're really for two different tastes.Did the Legacy of Kain team have any explanations for some of Blood Omen 2's unanswered questions that never made it into a game? Such as what the Nexus Stone was, or the Mass, or what happened to the surviving vampires at the end of the game?
We had a ton of reconciliation to do. We were going to put a lot in DP.. but didn't get the chance. The Hylden Lord, having the Soul Reaver for a time, could change history if he could get it in proximity of another Reaver.. or Raziel. Think about that motivation for a second, and you'll see how powerful the Hylden Lord's ambition was. But we didn't get a chance to really explore it further.Blood Omen 2 seems to portray the Hylden Realm as a green swirling energy storm whereas we get a brief moment in Defiance when Kain enters their realm and it is a dark-red mirror of the material realm, like a "deeper" layer of reality beyond the spectral realm. What in your mind, in the Hylden Realm exactly?
The Hylden Realm is a demonic dimension that warps and distorts reality with chaotic energy. The Hyden tried and succeeded in carving out a niche that left a few of them unaltered. Using the Glyph network, they created order out of Chaos, even subjugating the native creatures there.. but it was very limited and at great cost. Eventually even their great magics would succumb to the demon dimension and warp. The Nexus stone and device were all part of their attempts to come over. The Demon Realm is not a mirror copy of the Material though, it just touches on it in certain 'weak points' like Avernus. It's not like the Spectral Realm.. it has its own areas, too and time passes differently there as well.Hope that provides some enlightenment.
I´d like to ask, which game do you prefer more as a gamer - Legend or Anniversary?
I really like how Legend brought TR back from the dead and that it breathed some fresh air into the franchise.
Anniversary got even better and is my favourite of the new ones. That´s a really well done remake of the original.
Never got to play Underworld though.. Did you work on that one as well?
What do you think about the classic Tomb Raider games? I still play them from time to time, there is something timeless about that level design and puzzles.
Anniversary was great because we got to make the more uprezzed and realized versions of characters everyone loves. Even the controversial decisions (Pierre bald! OMG) were fun to execute and see. Plus I got a chance to collaborate with Paul Sullivan and Ben Shafer, two amazing concept artists and good friends. ANd I got a chance to make the iconic T-Rex Key Art image.
I LOVE Tomb Raider one. I still remember the first time I saw the T-Rex coming out of the fog, screamed and fumbled the controller. Poor Lara died a few times there. Mastering the roll to reverse ledge grab was amazing fun, and just having the first sense of freedom and exploration was amazing.
After that.. well I was disappointed in how stagnant it all became. The series didn't move forward with technology. It became all about Lara's boob size and how murderous she could be.
When we came out with Soul Reaver, we offered CORE the streaming technology and training opportunity with the Reaver Engine, which in my opinion was vastly superior and allowed for much more detailed textures. They turned us down flat, with a noted official saying to us 'Tomb Raider will sell more than Soul Reaver. We don't need your engine' Argh! So I watched in sadness as each subsequent TR became a quick off carbon copy of the previous.
They tried with Angel of Darkness.. but well I could tell you stories there too. It just wasn't coming together.. they had lost all stuff that made TR great. So our first goal at CD was to get that back.
I only did a few designs for Underworld before I left CD, primarily the NAGA (which got changed a lot) and the giant spiders.
There's an even bigger ARGH story there with not allowing Amy Hennig to lead a Tomb Raider team... So TR coming around to Uncharted's style of cinematic gameplay is.. oddly Karmic. Sometimes I feel like I'm only allowed to bear witness to such unfathomable events. (Like the Watcher in Marvel comics)
But overall I'm happy with the series. We'll see how the new reboot goes. I'm hoping Lara is more than a scared girl all the time and truly hardens into the badass we all know and love.
gonna buy these from GOG, never played Defiance and always heard about how they screwed everything and never gave the series a proper, real ending. This thread is awesome.
Legacy of Kain Defiance is a fantastic story resolution to the Soul Reaver saga and Raziel's journey. For Kain things are slightly more open ended. but for Raziel its a stunning way for his character to bow out.
First of all, the good:, its got some of the most fun and challenging bosses in the entire franchise - though not up to Soul Reaver 1 level by any means. Some of the voice acting is okay (particularly the main villain) and there is a great level called the Eternal Prison. There's some decent atmosphere in the later levels, with some appropriately tense music.
The bad: The game lacks the themes, imagination, exploration, grand architecture, cliche' avoidance and vast scale that define all the other entries. The dialogue is clumsy ("your plans crumble like dust!"), the animation of the characters is unwieldy, the levels are hugely linear and very similar to each other in terms of design. The combat is limited, mechanics like mist transformation and human possession are relegated to short gimmicks. The graphics are functional at best, and art design ranges from decent to completely abysmal (see the female Sarafan soldiers for a thoroughly misogynistic character design).The worst aspect is the treatment of the story and lore. People play the Legacy of Kain series primarily because its one of the best stories ever told in the gaming medium, with stellar scripting from Dyack, McCullough and Hennig, and Shakespearean-level vocal performances. I know that gameplay should always come first, but this franchise manages to have a unique sense of priorities.
Anyway, the story in Blood Omen 2 is wrong. It turns the world of the previous games (fluxes in time, different shades of grey, manipulations nestled in prophecy, death and survival) and replaces them with Kain (described on the back of the box as "the most evil character to grace a video game!") fighting sci fi aliens who are trying to take over the world.The people who made the game didn't play or care about the other games, and ignore vital essential story developments. There is a character in Blood Omen 1, who is executed near the end of the game in a mandatory cutscene, in an essential plot development that goes on to shape Kain's motives and actions for the next few games. The death of this character, shocking and unstoppable, is a vital part of the lore.
In Blood Omen 2, this dead character is alive. There is no explanation given, at any point, implicitly or explicitly as to why he is alive. Nothing. Its the biggest plot hole in the series, you could drive a truck through it. It appears that the developers of Blood Omen 2 hadn't actually completed the first game, as they didn't get to the vital cutscene explaining his death.There are other colossal plot difficulties too, and Kain's characterisation is utterly awful. The series is best played without it, frankly.
The Blood Omen 2 team had a vision of a sci fi epic in a medieval city, and forced the franchise to conform to that limited, typical and narrow concept.In my youth I was a part of a community dedicated to this series, moderated by a certain Divine Shadow :) Have been a fan of LoK since BO and always will be. Thanks again.
A fan has created a modified exe for Legacy of Kain: Defiance that enables widescreen support:
https://wsgf.org/forum/forums/gaming/requestdiscuss-game-solutions/23078/widescreen-support-legacy-kain-defiancehttp://i.imgur.com/TyDq2.png
http://i.imgur.com/BQq3Z.jpg
This stands alongside the Soul Reaver Widescreen patch, and the Soul Reaver 2 Widescreen patch that is expected to be released in the next few days.
I'll edit them into the OP.Blood Omen 2 is now on GOG. For enthusiasts only - some decent levels, and fun mechanics and bosses - but far far from the best of the franchise.
I am really hoping that a tinkered Blood Omen 1, fully compatible with current gen PCs, is on its way.Soul Reaver may have been the most overly ambitious game ever. (research thread)[]
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War for Nosgoth (Legacy of Kain) in AMD Drivers; "Nosgoth" in Steam DB [Psyonix Dev?][]
So this composer recently worked on a title "Nosgoth" for Square Enix and development outsourcing firm Psyonix (can't imagine they are a lead dev on a AAA).
First development,
Entirely spotted by Corlagon over at the Eidos forums.Short version - in AMD's latest Crossfire Application Profile, there are references to multiple upcoming games in the files. There are multiple references to Nosgoth and War of Nosgoth:
http://i.imgur.com/n7IIVb9.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/JrST6wW.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/7LZTBot.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/0qXSoL6.png
Nosgoth is the world in which the Legacy of Kain games (I've heard of them) takes place.Second development
Originally spotted by ArjanN on GAF, is this:http://i.imgur.com/1WTHvG2.jpg
The image is from SteamDB.info, a website that catalogues updates to the Steam database. The NOSGOTH image is part of the Steam Database.The shape behind the NOSGOTH text is the symbol that adorns the Pillars of Nosgoth:
http://i.imgur.com/jJmXHFr.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/MKcl4A0.jpg
Third Development
From months ago of course:
Square Enix registered a web domain called War for Nosgoth.
What does it mean?
Could War for Nosgoth be some sort of upcoming PC game, not an "AAA" title but something akin to a F2P MMO or the like?
Not optimistic by this information. Hope I'm wrong.If they game is being referenced in drivers and on Steam, then a release is upcoming. If this was the single-player AAA exploration/fighter/adventure that we have been waiting ten years for - then there would be a long-term PR campaign - announcements, previews, etc - before it ever got to this stage.
I'm curious about this project - but not optimistic.Then again I bought Blood Omen 2 on day one - so perhaps my love for the series is so strong it overrides my common sense.
Hoping for good, but expectations aren't high.It seems a certain publisher may have something to hide...
I have found this render on a portfolio site belonging to one of Psyonix's art staff. I'm going to do something that I don't usually do - and decline to link to the site specifically - as I don't want to get the person who has uploaded it into trouble.
http://i.imgur.com/EObvMKC.jpgThe image was displayed in a portfolio under the heading "vampire creature concept". Fans of the Legacy of Kain series will note that winged vampires are significantly important to the lore.
If (and I stress the if) this is from War for Nosgoth - it could represent a few things - a devolved Razielim, a twisted Ancient, or even Janos Audron himself post-burning within the Demon Dimension.The 10 Cancelled Legacy of Kains (Mama Robotnik Research Thread)[]
Nosgoth (Square Enix/Psyonix, Legacy of Kain, F2P) Announcement Trailer[]
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As George has mentioned, I was invited to Square Enix studios along with a group of some of the most established Legacy of Kain fans in existence - some of which have dedication to the series that makes me seem like a casual. It was a very memorable weekend, in which people all over the world who never expected to meet each other, got to. Square Enix funded this completely.
(At some point I'm going to do a write up on our visit to the studio, and what it was like for a hardcore community to meet for the first time.)My expectations were in check for a multiplayer game when I arrived at the studio, which helped. I was given the chance to play the game and had fun, particularly with the Alchemist and Turelim characters. It was fun to launch a wall of fire towards an advancing Dumahim, then have a Razielim pick me up, fly into the sky, and drop me to my death. It was also (devious) fun to scavenge the blood from my team mates' kills.
I had fun, thought it controlled well, and would like to play it further. I've not played any online battle games aside from Half Life 2 Deathmatch, a bit of Team Fortress 2, and some of Killing Floor (if that counts). I thought it was quite a different experience to them.I'll post more impressions when I do my proper write up (going on my holiday really soon). I've given my feedback too - I want more story components, and more links to the previous games (visual and story). I am hopeful that we'll get a single-player one day, and the loss of Dead Sun (and moreso The Dark Prophecy) still stings. Having played this though, as I said, I had fun.
Disclaimer: Square Enix paid approx £35 for me to get the train to London and back, and approx £98 for my hotel room overnight. They provided snacks, a goody bag with miscellaneous Nosgoth paraphernalia (mouse mats, t-shirts, etc). They also held a tournament which my team won, and we were each given a sealed Kain action figure from the Soul Reaver release line as a prize, not sure how much it is worth. In no way did I agree to write anything regarding the game, and at no point did Square Enix try to coerce or encourage any positive article or posts. I think this disclaimer is important.[]
The Context
As the years passed by, this community faded as gamers naturally moved on. A few dedicated fans kept records of the story and behind-the-scenes discoveries – long-lived websites such as TheLostWorlds, Dark Chronicle, Legacy of Kain Wiki, The Ancients Den, and others kept updating. I had occasional contact with many of these dedicated fans over the decade. We were happy that Amy Hennig (Soul Reaver) found new fame at Naughty Dog, and saddened as Denis Dyack (Blood Omen) rose and fell. The discoveries of the cancelled The Dark Prophecy and Dead Sun, and the seemingly-unsubstantiated rumours of a Soul Reaver Remake, were interesting but disheartening. Companies were bought and sold, and the Legacy of Kain series seemed to be a dead IP in the vaults of Square Enix. There were rumours of a multiplayer game of some sorts, which seemed very unusual.
The Invitation
We get to Summer 2013, and something bloody strange happened.
I received an ambiguous email from a very pleasant Square Enix representative, asking if I’d like to be involved in something. Given that I had only recently exposed the cancellation of Dead Sun – I was somewhat surprised at the gesture. I replied that I’d like to know what they had planned.The explanation was given: Square Enix wanted to host the first ever Legacy of Kain fan event at their London studios. They were deadly serious about this. Don’t live in the UK? No problem, we’ll pay for your flight and hotel. Don’t live in London? No worries, we’ll sort out a train. They were very, very eager to do this, and had invited the webmasters of the remaining major Legacy of Kain websites along with myself.They told us by email that they’d been working on Nosgoth – which indeed was a multiplayer game, and wanted to use this event to present their game to us. It was a really intriguing prospect: a chance to play a game before its completion, to attend a game studio, and most excitedly, to meet international LOK fans who I had interacted with online for the last ten years and never expected to actually meet in person.... for free. I’d have been mad not to accept.
I spent a few weeks speculating. Would this UK branch of Square Enix actually know anything about the series? What if I turn up and it’s awkward, particularly with my expose’ on Dead Sun? What if the new game is terrible, what would I say?
The Evening Before
I didn’t have any life experience to prepare me for this. Fifteen so people, who have never met each other in person, from vastly different backgrounds. Would we get along?
It was surreal, we clicked immediately. On a long table in the hotel restaurant, we chatted for hours about our love for the Kain games. Almost everyone favoured either Soul Reaver 1 or Blood Omen 1. Everyone mocked Blood Omen 2 mercilessly (“Did Kain have Brain Damage in that game, serious question?”). We chatted about our concerns about the multiplayer game we were about to see. It was quite strange that, for a series so centered around blood, killing and time-travel revenge, the fans were some of the nicest and most approachable people I’ve ever met. I spent a fantastic evening with them.
The Day
Square Enix’s community manager George Kelion (aka Monkeythumbz) introduced himself, and the Nosgoth team – a company called Psyonix. There was a ten-computer LAN setup in place, loads of snacks and drinks, seats and a presentation screen. Everyone got a drink and mingled for about twenty minutes, and we settled down for a presentation.
We watched an introduction trailer (which I think was very similar, if not identical, to the one which was eventually released a few weeks ago). We were invited to ask questions, and it became quite quickly apparent that they knew their series lore. I began to form an impression: the team had been commissioned by Square Enix to make a free to play multiplayer Legacy of Kain game. The team took this non-negotiable concept, and aimed to weave it into the existing mythos as devoutly as they could. They had researched obscure tidbits of background story only present in early releases of the SR1 instruction manual, and had established an entire faction on a very obscure Blood Omen character. They’d used some of the concepts that never made it into some of the games. They talked of the themes of the series, and how they had enjoyed looking through all the games to find a place where the story of their multiplayer war could fit in.Their enthusiasm was somewhat infectious. The most important thing would be, of course, if the game was actually going to be any good. A structure was established. We’d be split into teams, and would play some matches against one another. Winners would go through to a final match to win a prize.
The Game
Finally, I had the chance to play the game. Nosgoth is a third-person deathmatch game of sorts, set in the era between Soul Reaver’s intro sequence, and the resurrection of Raziel. Each round consists of two matches: in the first match Team A play the vampires, and Team B play the humans, and vice versa in the second match. Both sides goal is to kill each other, as you might expect from the genre. If you are interested, I can describe the experience of playing each side:
Humans: My favourite faction. Humans come in (so far) three classes, and all use projectile weapons. They have supers such as spawning walls of flames, or binding vampires in launched manacles. They have comparatively little health compared to their vampire counterparts, but can recharge their health at multiple healing sites within each level. The best strategy we seemed to work out, was to keep the humans together, and move round as a team picking off overconfident vampires from a distance.Vampires: Tough units who make up for their lack of projectiles with brute force. They have far more exotic abilities than the humans – stealth, flight, running up walls to name a few. They have a lot of health, but can only regain lost points by drinking blood out of human corpses. This leads to an interesting dynamic in which vampires race to the same corpse, creating tension in the overpowered team that contrasts the harmony of the human faction.
We only played rounds in two environments, and I developed a fondness for two units in particular: The Sisters of Anacrothe – A cult of pyromancers who can turn the environment into fields of vampire-burning fire; and the Turelim – a brute force vampire unit that charges into battle with its human-crushing bulk. I started seeing hints at deeper strategies, such as vampires pouncing out on humans near the human healing sites, and humans keeping watch on corpses, and taking down vampires who tried to feed on the blood within.Despite little experience with the genre, our team won. I definitely had fun with it.
As the day drew to a close, we were given the chance to give some direct feedback to the developers. Some things they couldn’t tell us, but a repeated point was that they hoped the free to play model of the game would allow considerable expansion if it was successful. I can’t remember all the raised points, but a recurring concern from the fans was the need for more visual imagery that echoed the rest of the series: more familiar locations, vampire clan symbols, etc. A really good point raised by a fellow fan was for the inclusion of female vampires in the ranks. Unfortunately at this point I had a train to catch, and had to leave a short time before all the other attendees.It was a remarkable weekend, and probably my most surreal experience as a gamer. As much fun as it was to visit a development studio, and play a genuine work-in-progress game, my most memorable moments were meeting fellow fans from all over the world for the first time, all paid for by Square. The Legacy of Kain fans are awesome people.
The Feedback
In the weeks that followed, Square Enix sent out feedback forms and asked for our individual input. It made me think about the game, and put into words what I would like to see in the final product. Away from the shock of just being at their studio, the excitement faded and I had a chance to cement my impressions.
First of all, it’s a fun game. When the last round ended, I was ready to play further. I felt that there were nuances to some of the classes I was only just beginning to uncover.Is it a Legacy of Kain game though? I think it’s on its way to being. At the visit to the studio, I saw a passion from the development team for the story of the series. I want to see more of this passion. In my written feedback, I expressed a wish to see more story, in whatever form fits into their multiplayer model. How about unlockable story chunks that tell tales of Nosgoth’s war tied to Steam achievements, or lore linked to lost artifacts found in the field of combat? How about statues and murals telling us biased and romanticised events of recent past – a recurring lore mechanic in the previous games – to give the world more depth? How about gradual changes to the appearance of high-level vampires, showing transitionary stages between their human origins and their eventual bestial devolved appearances in Soul Reaver?
I told Square Enix that I hoped to see more character classes, and more familiar environments. I also hope hope hope that the Free to Play model doesn’t lean towards pay to win. I hope there are more combat modes, and more imaginative super abilities. I feel they have a good start to build on here. I want more abilities, more classes, and more depth to the fiction of the war. Having met the team, I am optimistic that this is achievable.
The Conclusion
The Disclosure
Thanks for reading.
If it helps, I'm still going to be posting any material regarding the cancelled Dead Sun that comes my way, and am still devastated by its cancellation.
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UPDATE #2 - A new source has contacted me with a lot of interesting behind the scenes information, some of which gives some context to the cancellation.
UPDATE #3 - Click here for the latest updates, including the Square Enix E3 2012 Teaser Trailer, a video of the build up to a boss fight, and some interesting artwork!Original Post:
http://i.imgur.com/h2EurRm.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/A9g0N3Q.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/mVDZ5hR.jpg
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http://i.imgur.com/n8K47OL.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/oOQKmPO.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/jhAm2Rx.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/6JiOPA9.jpg
Disclaimer
Video Link:
Warning for mild in-game nudity – a character’s breast is seen.
YouTube Full VideoThe linked material was supplied by a source who worked on the game in some capacity. The video, information, screenshots and art in the this and earlier threads have been provided by a variety of sources. They have my gratitude. A source explained that the game was in a pre-alpha state when it was cancelled. Any abrupt framerate drops and jumps would have likely been tidied up before release, as the game still had a lot of work ahead of it. Also, I have had to connect multiple video files together and upload them, this is not something I have done before, so any jarring jumps or drops in quality may be due to my inexperience at this video joining and compiling process.
Discussion
The story of Legacy of Kain: Dead Sun seems to be along the lines of the following (with some information from insider sources and some from my knowledge of the franchise): Kain and Raziel's time-travel throughout Legacy of Kain: Defiance appears to have stabilised Nosgoth's far future. Humans spread across the land once more, and plant life began to re-appear. The vampire monsters returned to more elegant vampiric forms, though some maintained their bestial ancestors' hunger for souls. The vampires continued to block out the sunlight using huge ever-burning smoke stacks. The conflict between predators and prey continued as it always had done. Humans were able to regain enough control of the wilderness to re-establish trading towns, and became enamoured with worship of the obscured Sun.
The respite faded, and mass sterility plagued the human race. Asher, a human, was able to achieve a miracle and father an unborn child. From unseen machinations, a Saradin Soul-Eater vampire is sent to kill Asher and his family (with orders form on high to make the assassination purposely look like a massacre) but something goes wrong: As the vampire attempts to consume the human’s soul, a freak occurrence results in Asher taking complete control of Gein's body - leaving Gein’s vampire spirit impotent as ghost that only Asher can see and hear.Their journey together across Nosgoth's future would have initially explored who sent Gein to kill Asher, and why. It would later link to the wider Legacy of Kain mythos. There would be substantial connections to The Elder God, the Spectral Realm and a mysterious vampire child. The large theme running throughout the story would be the religious beliefs of Nosgoth. Climax were instructed by Square Enix to introduce a new protagonist to the series (as Crystal Dynamics had done thirteen years ago with Raziel in Soul Reaver), but the events were to be a continuation of the established Legacy of Kain storyline.
The area shown in the video is The Wetlands. It acted as a gigantic hub, connecting the different areas in this region of Nosgoth together. Such areas would have included: "dungeons", huge boss encounters, intense use of shifting between the Spectral and Material realms, masses of exploration, combat and hidden/earned upgradable abilities. The game was described as being intensely story focused, and inspired greatly by Soul Reaver and Zelda (to quote a source: "think if HBO did Zelda"). The game was originally intended to be a XBox 360/PS3 retail release (note the use of XBox button icons in the video) but as development progressed, the game was strongly considered to be PlayStation 4 launch title.Lore
http://i.imgur.com/gONLoxs.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/mSSYzwf.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/xkCY81g.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/5WkyFaX.jpg
Observations
- One of the echoes of the dead, a market seller, claims to be selling produce from Willendorf. Willendorf is a huge city from Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain (1996), and has never been mentioned in the series since then. The assassination of Asher, disguised as a purposeless massacre but orchestrated by higher powers, mirrors the human Kain's own murder by brigands directed by Blood Omen's Mortanius the Necromancer.
- Gein’s execution by being cast into water – and the subsequent fall and acidic burning of his flesh - is a clear allusion to the opening sequences of Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver (1999). Concepts such as soul consumption, the spectral realm, the decaying world, evolving vampires, blacked out skies and a hopeless future are all continuations of the themes started in the PlayStation classic. In the video, Gein holds a sword that looks extremely similar in shape to the physical Soul Reaver blade. Dead Sun appears to have been considered internally as the successor of the original Soul Reaver.
- Vampires with black wings and the ability to fly – a power Gein himself manifests halfway through the video – were a pivotal plot point in the past segments of Soul Reaver 2 (2001). The sterility of Dead Sun’s humans while faced with an overwhelming adversary, is a parallel to the sterile Ancients of Soul Reaver 2.
- The echoes of bustling cities and marketplaces, humans going about their lives while brigands protect their civlisation, echoes the city of Meridian in Blood Omen 2 (2002). The green glow around one of Dead Sun’s powerful enemies, is highly reminiscent of the corrupting possession energies (Blood Omen 2 spoilers) of the Hylden race.
- The worship of false deities, the cancerous presence of The Elder God, the abandonment of gods and ritualistic sacrifice all feature throughout Legacy of Kain: Defiance (2003). A decade later, Dead Sun seemed intent on continuing these story themes.
My personal thoughts: It is outright devastating that this was cancelled, as so much effort seems to have gone into creating a vision of Nosgoth's future that could succeed where Soul Reaver left off. There are substantial gameplay mechanics on show – combat looks fun, the exploration potential appears to be vast, and the power of flight across such sprawling landscapes looks nicely realised. The implementation of the spectral realm, with immediate controlled transitions between the worlds of life and death – looks absolutely incredibly implemented – a true contemporary implementation of Raziel’s most defining power! The story looks interesting too, it appears that Climax were intent on building their own lore and giving it space to breathe, while later in the game bringing explicit connections to Kain, the Elder God and other important parts of the mythos. Until more content surfaces, it may be some time before we know what these connections are.
I know that some people would have preferred to see Kain back as the playable character, but recall the success of Soul Reaver: Kain's legacy is equally fascinating when explored through his own eyes, or the eyes of others. Raziel's own introduction may have caused consternation in some when he was revealed as Soul Reaver's playable character, but through him we experienced one of the best stories in the series. The optimist in me would have hoped that the same could have been said about Asher/Gein.Some of Dead Sun continues to live on in Nosgoth. For example, Gein’s mastery of flight is an innate ability of the Razielim vampire clan, and the wall-climbing mechanic is a basic power of all the vampire combatants. A number of Dead Sun’s graphics assets are repurposed in Nosgoth’s human cities (note the white sun mural shown in the Razielim link appears throughout the Dead Sun video). As an aside, Nosgoth started as the multiplayer companion game to Dead Sun, but has since become a unique independent entry in its own right. It’s clearly absolutely not the expansive single-player adventure that Legacy of Kain fans have waited for since 2003’s Legacy of Kain: Defiance, but I find it fun to play, appreciate it as not being pay to win, and generally like its additions to the lore. For example, the lost vault of the Razielim is a story addition that I feel works very well indeed. With many scrapped projects, so much work is forever lost. Although Dead Sun's cancellation is extremely disheartening, at least some of the work that went into it lives on.
Thanks and Additional Discoveries
I also have some concept art and renders from portfolios of artists who worked on the game - these are still being processed, so expect an update to the thread over the next day or so. Thanks for reading!
I hope somebody leaks some videos of other parts of the game. I don't have any, annoyingly, but others who worked on it might have a video of The Temple Of The Whore Saint, which was one of the dungeons. The thing to remember is that this bit is a small chunk of what was essentially Hyrule field - an expanse designed to lead from place to place. The person playing this is really taking their time with a bit of the game that has zero missions - the actual structure was far more Zelda/Soul Reaver than this might appear.
I was told something off-hand, could you clarify it for me? Someone said that one of the plot points of this game would have involved Kain fighting his younger self. Is there any truth in this or have I heard wrong? Also, just to broaden the question a bit, would Kain have definitely appeared in the game? What would have been his role, if so?
- Having just finished Shadow of Mordor, which I found hugely enjoyable, I have to say it was eerily similar to the open world (hub as we termed them) areas of Dead Sun. From the art style, to the switching worlds, the environment traversal, character ability progression, combat and numerous other aspects, SOM was incredibly close to half the game we were making.
- The Dungeons were the other half. Given how much work obviously went into SOM, one of the most polished games I've played, I think Dead Sun was too ambitious, which probably also contributed to it getting the axe. It would have been a monster of a game - the wetlands hub area you've already seen was just one of 3 or 4 entirely different open hub areas, never mind the various dungeons that were planned. They all had distinctively different looks, puzzles and boss fights. The team wasn't big enough to pull that lot off in a reasonable time frame, to the quality level required of a AAA release.- Which is all a great shame, as the design of the game was excellent and meticulously thought through. Whilst not a straight sequel to previous LOK games, and not featuring previous favourite characters, it had more than enough depth and references to previous games to both satisfy (most) fans and really bring the LOK series back to life in a modern format. It was certainly a lot more than a re-skinned Assassin's Creed or Batman, even if it did share some aspects with those games. But there we go, the vagaries of the games industry. Those design docs will still be around somewhere at Climax (or possibly elsewhere) - all it would take is someone with a spare $100 million or so and that'd see it up and running.
First of all: The Square Enix E3 2012 Teaser Trailer.
http://i.imgur.com/EJamuLO.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/fGhKh3r.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/Y3mpFwG.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/eiPS14M.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/HMwNBEm.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/1VK3ox1.jpgFrom what my new source has explained, this was made externally by Square Enix's CG department, and may have been the first the world would have seen of the game. "Black Cloth" was the codename for the game during its development at Climax, probably in place until they cemented the final Dead Sun name.
My interpretation of the trailer: its the final right of passage of the Saradin vampire race, the moment where they are either burned to death by water, or master their power and survive as a wraith. The reference to Soul Reaver is very direct.
The next video is: The Pre Boss Battle Cutscenehttp://i.imgur.com/hc27Lyh.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/HwP7IDV.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/YDI2URI.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/ANmonFV.jpg
Next, a few more pieces of artwork. This piece shows a number of different locations that would have appeared in the game. These huge structures would have appeared in different places across Nosgoth:
http://i.imgur.com/prEXv3w.jpgAnd these show something unique: a city in which humans and vampires co-existed. Any conflict, battles, feeding or killing were harshly responded to by rule of law. It was a place that Gein would visit many times on his journey.
http://i.imgur.com/huJxtYt.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/WWUUslN.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/COQWU1J.jpgThat's all at present.
Regarding the comment regarding the "lead" apparently hating Soul Reaver. It doesn't make any sense to me - the videos I posted are full of allusions to Soul Reaver, both direct and subtle:
-"I am a Soul Reaver" and accompanying dialogue-Burning smokestacks blocking out the sun.
-The water burning vampire death.
-Vampires with wings
-The spectral realm, complete with Sluagh-like creatures
-Activating a forge-like object
-A Soul-Reaver esque model sword
-References in the lore screenshots to the "wheel of life".
If a project lead really hated the original game, why on earth would any of the above be present? It's completely contradictory to the evidence.
I've noticed criticisms across the internet of the story and the game not looking enough like the previous games. My perspective:Story and Script
I don't know the story (at least not yet), but from watching this video, neither do any of us. We've seen half an hour, with a brief flashback and a few dialogue scenes. We have very little information as to what would have happened after the point at which the video ends. The dialogue we have seen is from the lower classes of Nosgoth. In Blood Omen/Blood Omen 2, the lower classes did not speak with the sophistication of the main characters - the beautiful dialogue was almost always reserved for the more intelligent and educated protagonists/antagonists. Since we haven't met any of them in the video, I doubt that the vulgarities of the vampire hunters would have reflected all characters.As I said, I'm hoping to have some new information regarding this at some point and post it.
Doesn't look like the previous gamesThe video was an alpha. People have been saying it looks nothing like the previous games. Blood Omen 1 didn't look like Blood Omen 2, which didn't look like Soul Reaver 1, which didn't look much like Defiance. There are similarities in character design throughout SR1/2/Defiance, but the environments are vastly varied with a range of influences. I don't see as much of a unifying art style across the games as others apparently do.
One thing to post that might be interesting though is this:http://i.imgur.com/EnyZHOi.jpg
(Credit to Lord Aevum for the discovery)
I'm just speculating. I have no idea what would have been in the final game, and everyone is entitled to their opinion. I just disagree with some of those opinions.
Legacy of Kain Dead Sun (cancelled) – Story information[]
Over the last few years I have found a lot of assets from the game. What really eluded me however, was the story. Given the importance of plot in this of all franchises, I really wanted to know how the cancelled game connected to the wider Legacy of Kain mythos.
A source has contacted me, one who has been very helpful in the past and whom I have absolutely verified the legitimacy of. They were able to shed some light on the story of Legacy of Kain: Dead Sun:The vampire lord Kain, at some point after the climax of Legacy of Kain: Defiance (the final released single-player game in the franchise), travelled back in time to murder his younger self. The result of this time-travel suicide was the alternate timeline seen in Legacy of Kain: Dead Sun.
Kain himself would have not appeared in the game directly at all. There would be some vague hint that part of him existed, and he and Raziel would be alluded to as myths from prehistory, but according to my source, the Kain that we know from the previous games would be entirely absent.This lore information is very startling, and clashes massively with the established story of the series. Kain’s constant fight to survive in a world that hinges on his demise, and the rules of time-travel and timelines that were so beautifully written by Amy Hennig and her team in Soul Reaver 2, appear to be disregarded. Also the idea of a Legacy of Kain game, apparently without Kain, seems misguided.
One thing to keep in mind however is something an earlier source mentioned to me a few years ago - that Climax Studios had been directed by Square Enix to keep their story distant from the lore of the earlier games. This might explain the reason for the strange story direction - I wonder if keeping Kain out of the game directly might have been something that was non-negotiable?The recent source also added that the story for Legacy of Kain : The Dark Prophecy (cancelled way back in 2004) would have been a much more direct sequel, continuing Kain’s story directly after Defiance. Former Crystal Dynamics staffer – and extremely helpful Q&A provider - Daniel Cabuco, has confirmed that The Dark Prophecy would have seen Kain descend into the Hylden prison reality, to learn more about the mysterious race before its descent.
Finally, the source offered some commentary on the cancellation of Legacy of Kain : Dead Sun. Though other sources earlier alluded that production was mainly suspended for budgetary reasons, the current source says that there were quality problems with the game – and after tens of millions was spent over three years – Square Enix pulled the plug. The company was reportedly happy with the art and audio, but had significant issues with design and narrative. So I am told.And that’s it. If you worked on the game (or any other) and would like to get some information/art/anything else out there, please PM me and I’ll be glad to help!
I have a few concept pieces to post, some already on the internet (new to GAF) and some more recent finds. I'll try and post them into the thread over the next few days.UPDATE - New Concept Art and renders a few posts below.
I'll echo the comments by others in this thread that the supposed plot anchor for the game, that of Kain killing his previous self and being absent from the game , sounds a bit odd. I thought the central hook of Dead Sun souunded interesting with the character duality, but having a LOK game without even a Kain cameo is just wrong.
One question for you Mama, by chance do you know who the actors were for the main characters in Dead Sun were? It's been nagging at me since the gameplay surfaced earlier this year as I somewhat recognize one of the voices but can't place my finger on it.http://i.imgur.com/VVXUCU4.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/N82ERen.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/BWCewy5.jpg
The Imperial Troopershttp://i.imgur.com/wd72pHY.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/V1BJeBG.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/Aq9WIfp.jpg
The Bruteshttp://i.imgur.com/smqEJf1.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/MVYPyge.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/svZzJA3.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/lxDSWn3.jpgBut we'll never know because after over 12 years we're still left with absolutely nothing.
(1) The "Soul Reaver" story ended in Defiance.
(2) Continuing on a story from the last game in the series - Legacy of Kain Defiance, released twelve years ago - would be alienating for new players, especially with so much unresolved.
(1) Re-release of Blood Omen, remade as a digital download game for all formats from PSN, XBLA, Steam, iOS, Android, etc. This is the first game in the series, its a 2D overhead zelda-esque game so it shouldn't be anywhere near as expensive as a massive AAA production. Its the foundation of the Legacy of Kain story, and would serve as a vital introduction to modern players as to what the world of Nosgoth is all about.
Certain gameplay elements could be updated of course, such as the cumbersome menu system, the loading times, and perhaps increasing the depth of the combat system.
The Blood Omnicide fan project has some nice ideas as to how the original game could be look with a modern engine.
(2) Soul Reaver was by far the most financial successful of the games, and is still a very solid game today. A remake/remaster would be a great idea - its still a very compelling story in a fascinating post-apocalyptic fantasy world. They could add additional value to the package by having two modes: (1) a remake of the original Soul Reaver; and (2) a remake with all of the cut content and the original intended (false) ending.
Any remake/remaster would be a great opportunity to excise most of the block puzzles. Fanartist SaitoMaks gives us an idea of what it could look like:
(3) The "Doctor Who" option - the distant continuation. Set the next game either in the very far future or the very far past, so that for new players it is effectively a new franchise, but the further you delve the more continuity presents itself. I call this the "Doctor Who" option as this is exactly the approach that show took when it came back on the air. It introduced itself effectively as a new television program, and over time reintroduced many many aspects of its 50 year history. This wouldn't please old fans who want immediate story continuation, but would result in a game for new and old fans that may be (or may not be) financially viable.
Just a few ideas.
Distant continuation in the far future with a new protagonist, but as you play you find out more about the history of Nosgoth, and Kain (who, in the beginning, could have been any despot without a backstory).
It's probably what I'd like most for a new entry in the franchise: you start playing as a new character, learn about the Elder God, and eventually meet up with Kain, who has been fighting the God for a long time, but was still missing *insert MacGuffin here* to set his plan in motion. Useless to say, the missing cog has something to do with said protagonist.That's it. Sprinkle a few distant references to previous entries here and there for additional world building and to keep long time fans happy, and you're set.
Still, Nosgoth's timeline is incredibly rich. Developers could pick a multitude of settings to start a distant continuation. A few examples:
-A human living in Nosgoth's forgotten history, trying to live his/her life while the god-like Ancients and Hylden battle their soul war. The Elder God senses that the time of the old races is coming to its end, and whispers to the human protagonist ways to accelerate the end of the war.-Vorador prequel - the adventures of the first human vampire. The era would be a few decades into human rule of Nosgoth, the Pillar Guardians are still trying to understand what it means to rule a world that is recovering from the wars of fallen gods. Enter Vorador, a human turned into a vampire by necessity of the dying Ancients as a way of preserving their bloodline. (Denis Dyack actually expressed an interest in this path about 15 years ago)
-Early Kain Empire era. Play a newly-recruited vampire to one of the clans, as the Vampire Empire is conquering the planet. For some reason, the protagonist is different to the rest of his/her vampire kin, and fights to hold on to their humanity - as Kain himself did in his fledgling incarnation.-Post Soul Reaver era. Play a human in the post-apocalyptic era in which Nosgoth is on the very edge of collapse. The Hylden are returning, time-travelling Ancients are emerging having followed Kain's timestream, and the Elder God is preparing for a huge Soul buffet - it will consume enough souls to allow it to detach itself from Nosgoth, and be so engorged that it can sustain itself through the long journey between dimensions - to latch onto a newer, fresher world, to begin its parasitism again. You have to stop it.
That's me just throwing ideas out, but I like to think they could all work as distant continuations.It would have to be a reboot or a so seperately placed entry that it would be a fake reboot.
Though I think there is room for Blood Omen / Soul Reaver remaster, to generate interest in the mythos.
Monkeythumbz[]
The 10 Cancelled Legacy of Kains (Mama Robotnik Research Thread)[]
I know it’s disappointing to hear about these things out of context, and whilst some of the details released are accurate - some details are not. You know game projects can be cancelled for a variety of different reasons and I know it’s very hard to tell from images and info alone, but in the end LoK: Dead Sun just wasn’t the right game, at the right time… but you’ll have to take me at my word on that, I’m afraid.
Obviously, it’s not usual for assets from cancelled games to be released, but given that there’s a lot out there already I thought you might appreciate seeing a few more images that were taken from the previously in-progress game.As you’ll be aware, we’re currently working on a multiplayer game firmly set within the Legacy of Kain universe called Nosgoth, which we’re very proud of. It’s grown in size and scope since its initial conception and we’ll be talking more about it in the future. While we’re not working on a single-player Legacy of Kain game right now, that doesn’t mean it’s not something we’d look at making in the future.
http://i1274.photobucket.com/albums/y432/WarForNosgoth/BC_BG_S_Gein_05_zps7aed63f6.jpghttp://i1274.photobucket.com/albums/y432/WarForNosgoth/SabaraVista_Human_zpsda2d276a.jpg
http://i1274.photobucket.com/albums/y432/WarForNosgoth/SARADIN_FINAL_zps7acebd23.jpghttp://i1274.photobucket.com/albums/y432/WarForNosgoth/CHR_CONCEPT_VOLTAIRE_zpsbb47ac02.jpg
http://i1274.photobucket.com/albums/y432/WarForNosgoth/CHR_CONCEPTS_LOST_SOUL_V3ampV4_zps97656889.jpghttp://i1274.photobucket.com/albums/y432/WarForNosgoth/NME_VH_IPT3A_zpsa0909a0b.jpghttp://i1274.photobucket.com/albums/y432/WarForNosgoth/Enforcers-F300311_zps723dabc3.jpg
http://i1274.photobucket.com/albums/y432/WarForNosgoth/Female_Trooper_final_hires_zpsc124174f.jpghttp://i1274.photobucket.com/albums/y432/WarForNosgoth/Master_zpse77fea3b.jpg
Are those artworks from Dead Sun or War For Nosgoth now? Because they're uploaded to a photobucket album called "WarForNosgoth"...
But I can categorically confirm that Nosgoth was a separate game from the beginning and is very much a unique game in its own right. It was related to the single-player game in terms of a shared art direction, but was always set in an entirely different time period and features different mechanics, characters, levels and gameplay. It isn’t and never was just a multiplayer version of the single-player game.
Personally, I can’t wait to show you exactly what we’ve been working on.EDIT: Just for clarity, had Dead Sun shipped then Nosgoth would have been its multiplayer companion game. However, to categorize it as the "the multiplayer component of Dead Sun pulled out and fleshed out" isn't really accurate, nor does it do the game justice IMHO.
Can you tell us if there was any multiplayer planned for Dead Sun at all? Or was it simply a single player experience?
The root of the IP is very nice. I wonder sometimes if this series is not one that could use a full reboot. Whether they reboot the series or keep it going I wouldn't be against more game in this universe. I only played Soul Reaver but I remember liking it back in the days.
Out of respect for the poor devs who worked hard on this, I will refrain from saying what I really think of these news.
Legacy of Kain: Dead Sun (PS4, cancelled) / Legacy of Kain: Nosgoth (PC, upcoming)[]
Monkeythumbz is a cool guy, other Community Managers should take note.
I mean, I could have just as easily said Team Fortress 2, despite Nosgoth being in 3rd-person. The point is my intention was purely just to keep you from building up any false assumptions, which wouldn't do anyone any favours.
We'll be revealing fully comprehensive details about the game in due course - as Mama Robotnik said I'm very limited as to what I can tell you about the game right now. I know that having a shroud of secrecy over the game can be frustrating, but it's only a temporary situation and in the meantime we really appreciate whatever patience you can afford us while we knock our plans into shape.Vae Victus!
/smh
Nosgoth (Square Enix/Psyonix, Legacy of Kain, F2P) Announcement Trailer[]
- Back to contents
- http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=685945
- http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=685945&page=2
- http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=685945&page=3
- http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=685945&page=4
- http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=685945&page=5
- http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=685945&page=6
- http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=685945&page=7
- http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=685945&page=8
- http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=685945&page=9
Oh and don't forget that we'll be holding a Live Q&A on Monday 30th September via Twitch where you'll be able to ask us your questions directly - full details on the official blog here.
Right, gimme a mo' and I'll have a read of this thread.It's probably fun enough to play, but man it will be a hard sell to fans.
What I can tell you is that we're being very respectful to the pre-established lore and that Nosgoth is set in a previously unexplored era in the LoK timeline. It takes place during Raziel's fall down the Abyss/Lake of The Dead. When he enters the Abyss, Kain;s Empire is in full swing. When he re-emergfes, it's inm ruins and its clear Kain has been absent for quite some time (as evidenced by his lack of devolution following Nupratros cuerse as evinced by his Lieutenants.
Nosgoth shows you what happened inbetween, not least what happened to the Razielim.This is why the Vampires (aside from Vorador, but incvluding Kain) have five fingers in Blood Omen and Blod Omen 2.
Okay, page 1 done. Onto page 2.
Welcome to random ass wood constructions:
The maps playable in Nosgoth are set in regions referenced in previous games in the series and are known to fans, although they do not contain specific locations players would have visited in the Blood Omen or Soul Reaver games as Kain or Raziel.
Fuck that shit..
Okay, onto page 3 (...sorry, got distracted by Twitter).
I died a little.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=594576&page=3&highlight=
Monkey plz...
Also, why are you even trying?
After the trailer though... I mean, I know WHY it was done... but it doesn't help.
It does look fun but I don't know if I would be able to HAVE fun with it, ya know?Shit, there's a page 4? Slow down you guys!
So Legacy of Kain: Dead Sun was a game in development at Climax for 3 years, and Psyonix was contracted to make a disconnected multiplayer mode for it.
Dead Sun was canceled, and Psyonix's game got a major boost in development time and budget, because Square Enix liked what they were doing.However, since it was at one point the same project, they seem to have wrote off all the money they spent on the singleplayer (Dead Sun), as none of that is ever shipping.
I think it's the circumstance of how it came to be due to Dead Sun.
I don't think Square Enix's community managers make high level business decisions.
(disregarding the brutal slaughter of the Legacy of Kain series)
is the unimaginative weapons. A flamethrower, grenade launcher and a crossbow that fires like a machinegun...
Really?
When you take the risk to alienate an entire fanbase with a title, one would guess that the first impression was rather important to you.
Page 4 done! Page 5 WHAT? Onwards!
Asymmetric teams is something I applaud in MP games. Furthermore, within the teams themselves, having classes that can do different types of navigation (vertical climbing, flying, etc.) is pretty neat.
And, as someone who doesn't play MOBAs, I'm really glad this isn't one. It's not a military setting either, nor is it a WOW/DOTA/LOL fantasy-type setting.All around, it looks much more exciting than a lot of MP games, in my opinion. The only thing I'm a bit cautious about is F2P, but if handled correctly, it might be inoffensive and unobtrusive.
We made the decision to go to free-to-play to break down barriers and let as many players into the game as possible. One of the key goals has been to create a fair experience that doesn't penalise players who don’t spend money in the game, as such Nosgoth doesn’t include items, weapons or abilities that are inherently better (aka supremacy goods).
I'm printing that out.Why choose a game like this for another Legacy of Kain/Nosgoth universe title? Why wasn't a single player adventure game very similar to past titles made instead of this? I mean, it's been so long since Defiance that coming out with a multiplayer arena battle game is just pure stupidity. I think less people, including myself, would be less hostile to this MP game if it were included as part of a SP campaign or if it were released shortly after a SP Kain/Nosgoth title. But instead, years later when everyone is yearning for another LoK/SR type of adventure (see Darksiders as a somewhat decent example of something similar) we get an MP game the majority of fans not only don't care about, but reject.
Again, the game would be okay if....- It were released as part of an SP adventure.
- Released alongside or shortly after an SP game.
- Was not associated with the LoK universe in any shape or form.
This is equivalent of releasing Halo Wars if Halo 3 came out in 2002. Makes no sense.
Previous games in the franchise have very much focused on the Vampires and other inhuman races of Nosgoth. We wanted to show more of the Human side – at various points in history they’ve fought fiercely enough to nearly wipe out the Vampires after all, so it’s not like they’re not a formidable fighting force. Equally we thought it would be interesting to experience Nosgoth not from the vantage point of the world’s rulers but from the perspective of the people who fought in these wars. Multiplayer gameplay seemed like a good fit that would let new players into this universe. It was obvious gameplay needed to be asymmetrical, that our two sides needed to feel very different – this wasn’t just about the lore, but about making sure the gameplay felt new and exciting.
As to your earlier response, I appreciate your honesty in trying to avoid the wall of negativity. That being said, I hope you don't get your hopes up that that wall goes away. DmC attempted to do everything to assuage the haters (which were damn near everyone) that hey! Look! Its still the thing you wanted!, and it was still a sales failure (in comparison to its earlier games) despite getting higher review scores because people didn't want it to exist. And I can tell you certainly that I much rather this not exist than I did with DmC, particularly after the cancellation of Dead Sun.
As to your earlier response, I appreciate your honesty in trying to avoid the wall of negativity. That being said, I hope you don't get your hopes up that that wall goes away. DmC attempted to do everything to assuage the haters (which were damn near everyone) that hey! Look! Its still the thing you wanted!, and it was still a sales failure (in comparison to its earlier games) despite getting higher review scores because people didn't want it to exist. And I can tell you certainly that I much rather this not exist than I did with DmC, particularly after the cancellation of Dead Sun.
As for the "wider audience" thing... please read between the lines.
See: Valve's latest announcements.
This is completely blowing off the fans. Well, guess what.... Screw those people who don't play the single player because you know what? That's not who Legacy of Kain and the Nosgoth universe is for in the first damn place!
I spotted an Enslaved app on the registry and it has been receiving constant updates. We will see.
Great job.
The maps playable in Nosgoth are set in regions referenced in previous games in the series and are known to fans, although they do not contain specific locations players would have visited in the Blood Omen or Soul Reaver games as Kain or Raziel.
http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs32/f/2008/204/f/4/Raziel_Racer_by_hgrungh.jpg
Again, to the SE community manager, no offense intended to you and your team.
BY THE WAY: I am *officially* copying and pasting a lot of my answers here for use elsewhere online. So, if you see me repeating myself, remember you heard it hear first.
;-)
A few weeks ago, I invited a bunch of hardcore LoK fanatics (what can I say, I was in good company - go on, test me on the series' lore, I dare you) to actually PLAY THE GAME (dun dun durrrrr) at our studio in Wimbledon, London. These community members were drawn from the Eidos LoK forum, so if you think YOU'RE an LoK fan, try making a forum that's home to a series in which a game hasn't been released for a decade your number one online destination.
Anyway, the first report is online - go read it here before you slam something entirely based on an Announcement trailer.*Game: Nosgoth (PC) (Pre-release review)
*Btw, for full disclosure, I totally do this too about other people's games.All in favor?
He's a terrific guy, actually - really, really incredible bloke.
Heh, just kidding :)
Boring third person shooter play style or demons who can leap like the Hulk or fly? Tough choice.
Dead Sun looked very promising, not to mention that there are no vampire games/competitors, so why wouldn't this be the perfect PS4 launch title? People are waiting for a similar, dark vampireish title like The Masquerade – Bloodlines. I think you really missed a huge opportunity.
Development started on Nosgoth while LoK: Dead Sun was already in development and the reasons that led to the cancellation of Legacy of Kain: Dead Sun had nothing to do with Nosgoth. Nosgoth was a separate game from the beginning and is very much a unique game in its own right. It shared art direction with the single player game, but was always set in an entirely different time period and features different mechanics, characters, levels and gameplay.
The reasons that led to the cancellation of LoKain: Dead Sun had nothing to do with Nosgoth and this is why we chose to carry on with its development.Just kidding, I live for this shit :-)
Also, just in my own defense I DID TRY to warn you guys directly here on GAF about the direction of the game in Mama Robotniks' Dead Sun thread. I'm a huge LoK fan too and I didn't want people building up false hope or speculating along futile lines.
IN ADDITION: You can find the second community impressions of Nosgoth piece over on the Legacy of Kain wiki right here: Nosgoth: First Looks
We know why Kain throws Raziel into the pit. We also know Kain is patiently waiting for Raziel's return when he emerges, even going so far as to say he expected Raziel to arrive at the Sanctuary of the Clans sooner. We *also* see that Kain hasn't suffered any of the effects of Nupraptor's curse over time in the same way as the other Lieutenants and their Clans. AND we also know that Kain has kept a somewhat light touch on his Empire during Raziel's time in the Abyss, given Rahab's comments in the Drowned Abby, apparently only making an appearance every so often when he sees fit and demonstrating a knowledge of future events. Additionally, Kain actively demonstrates a disregard for his Lieutenants (as well as their offspring and his whole Empire in general) and would have no reason to share his intricate plans to salvage Nosgoth and reclaim his role as the Scion of Balance with them. Plus, we also know Kain has access to and has been actively using the Chronoplast. Therefore, it seems overwhelmingly likely that Kain had skipped forwards through time, and not long after Raziel had been cast down judging by his not-as-devolved-as-the-Lieutenants appearance.
Therefore, Kain physically isn't around during the majority of Raziel's time in the Abyss, meaning his Lieutenants were in joint rulership of Nosgoth. So how do the Razielim die out? Well, we also know that the Lieutenants were jealous and capricious, eager to curry favour with Kain and to gain power for themselves. It's overwhelmingly likely, therefore, that - having misinterpreted Kain's decision to cast Raziel into the Abyss - the Clans would have fallen on the Razielim in an effort to destroy them, believing that's what their Lord and Master wanted and also to claim the now leaderless Razielim's lands as their own. With new (for the first time in centuries) possessions at stake, this in turn would no doubt have led to infighting, perhaps even civil war between the clans.Either way, we already *know* that the Vampires must have been distracted enough somehow during this period (obviously without Kain's iron will to guide them), because at some point in this era, Humans - who, up until this point, had been entirely enslaved - start attacking Vampire strongholds and even incapacitate one of Kain’s lieutenants, Dumah, for several centuries (as evinced by his comparative lack of devolution in comparison to Zephon and Melchiah). This is where the series demonstrates strong internal logic, as for Vampires three or four centuries is not very long at all, but for Humans that's several generations!
All we're doing is filling in the gaps at the early part of this period, before Dumah has been staked but after Kain has absconded his throne and hopped into the Chronoplast. We're saying that with the Vampires focused on their internal squabbles, Nosgoth’s Human population seized the chance to grow stronger, rebuild cities, relearn skills and recovered their power to the point where they could retaliate against their Vampire masters. This credible threat would naturally have reunited the warring Vampire Clans in the face of a common enemy. Enter my previous quote about the Razielim here.Had all the Razileim been killed by that point? Well, obviously not, 'cos they're in our game. Do we even know whether the Razileim were actually ever destroyed completely? If you've done your research, you'll know Amy Hennig was purposefully vague on this point... and so are we. (Plus, we do actually have some pretty cool plans to *show* you what happened to them after Raziel got cast down without using cut-scenes. It's actually pretty exciting stuff).
So PLEASE don't denigrate our narrative efforts by (a) calling it "fanfiction" and (b) using that word in an undeservedly pejorative sense. I mean, it's true in one sense in that we're fans and it's fiction, but we've gone to as greater lengths as possible to make sure nothing contradicts pre-established canon and actually expands what we know of this era in interesting waysAnyway, I appreciate the opportunity to be challenged in this way. I'm not saying our game is perfect right at this present juncture but the great thing about a live game is that, with the help of your (constructive) feedback, we'll be able to shape and improve on it over time.
All depends on my work schedule.
I understand you only have a budget to work under, but man, this is like the chance to make something really special with a really old IP, and it's being turned into yet another run of the mill multiplayer game.
I'm not saying the execution is going to be poor, i'm saying the scope is insanely condensed to the point where it just looks like a huge waste of time.Secondly, I appreciate that you find this premise uninteresting, really I do - it would be myopic of me to suppose that every LoK fan out there is interested in this era - however yours isn't the only opinion going. Rather than link you to any number of supportive posts on Nosgoth's official forum or even the Eidos Legacy of Kain forums, take a look at this one again from Daniel Cabuco's website.
Not sure when the invites will be issued, but I'd expect it'll be before Xmas.
That said, Nosgoth being successful would only help, as hopefully it would expose the IP to new people and make them interested in future titles.
Either way, I am *just* a CM. So I could be talking out of my arse here. Please bear that in mind.The livestream will now be broadcast at the following times:
Monday 30th September- PDT: 11am
- EDT: 2pm
- BST: 7pm
- CEST: 8pm
Looking forward to speaking with you all very soon!
I don't know if it's a case of managers and shareholders chasing fads, or crazy executives soliciting for business initiatives from fortune tellers, but I do know Square-Enix is one company among a few that have been making these unpalatable, brand-damaging decisions for years, and seeing that those in charge are still so out of sync with many of their preexisting customers is...well, let's just say my consumer dollars do not and will not go to Square-Enix anymore.
I appreciate your candor, though, and sincerely hope you are being paid very well for this job you've been assigned.As for my salary, I'll pass that on to my boss!! ;)
Since it is a PvP game in which you will have SOME story elements explained, is there a possibility (not sure if it was asked before or if its already in the planning) to have set piece battles? Battles where you are randomly tossed into a faction and play out events of lore. Similar to a dungeon setting in an MMO but with two playable sides to it, a "what if" battle where you have the vampires attack a major human stronghold, or vice versa, and you can see what happens if one faction beats the other?
I've already signed up for Beta so I'm looking forward to give this game a whirl.I'd provide links, but it'd be bad netiquette given I'm a rep (sorry!).
[]
Massive thanks needs to be extended to our long-serving forum mods Driber, Umah_Bloodomen and The_Hylden; without their invaluable assistance I wouldn't have been able to put the whole shebang together.
It was important to me personally, as a gamer, a human being and long-time forum goer (Marathon.org FTW), that we serviced the perennial active members of the Legacy of Kain boards on the Eidos forum first and foremost. Did we hope that they'd like the game? Of course, I mean that's only natural and to be expected. However we needed to ensure that we were actually as in-keeping with LoK lore as we thought we were, and this was the best way of doing so. Additionally, we wanted to know how some of the most hardcore LoK fans in the world would fare with the game once they actually got their hands on it. The feedback provided by the survey forms Mama Robotnik mentioned have proved incredibly useful and is informing our thoughts and decisions on a daily basis. We're still some way off from sharing new art, but we'll get there and when we do, we're hoping it'll demonstrate that we really are listening and taking community requests on-board in as practical a way as possible for this project.
Nosgoth - Hunters Class Background Revealed[]
- The Land of Nosgoth
- Humankind
- Vampirekind
- Tyrant-class Turelim (vampires)
- Hunter-class Ironguard (humans)
- Reaver-class Dumahim (vampires)
- Scout-class Watchers (humans)
Nosgoth Gameplay Premiere[]
The decision to make any game is based on a number of factors – the right idea, the right team, the right market conditions all need to be in place to make it happen. The Legacy of Kain franchise is one we are huge fans of and we would love to bring another narrative experience in that world if all the elements were in place.
That said, the right combination of circumstances aren’t in place right now. We’re very aware that if and when we make a single player game it needs to be a worthy successor, and we will wait until we’re confident that this is going to be possible.Previous games in the franchise have very much focused on the Vampires and other inhuman races of Nosgoth. We wanted to show more of the Human side – at various points in history they’ve fought fiercely enough to nearly wipe out the Vampires after all, so it’s not like they’re not a formidable fighting force. Equally we thought it would be interesting to experience Nosgoth not from the vantage point of the world’s rulers but from the perspective of the people who fought in these wars. Multiplayer gameplay seemed like a good fit that would let new players into this universe. We feel that the Legacy of Kain universe is rich and deep enough to support all kinds of gameplay experience, and we want to introduce it to a wider audience than just fans of single player games. We know that while there are lots of fans of single-player gaming, an increasing number of gamers are looking for a more connected and social experience. We were interested in exploring whether the world of Legacy of Kain could offer something to these gamers, and the more we thought about it the stronger the idea sounded. It was obvious gameplay needed to be asymmetrical, that our two sides needed to feel very different – this wasn’t just about the lore, but about making sure the gameplay felt new and exciting.
We always felt that Nosgoth itself was the third central character to the franchise so far, alongside Kain and Raziel. It’s an amazing and hugely atmospheric world, with so much possibility for all kinds of games and stories. We wanted to emphasize this – we believe the world of Nosgoth has room for many more characters and situations than we’ve seen so far.Anyway, Nosgoth is a free-to-play game - but it's *not* pay-to-win. We made the decision to go to free-to-play to break down barriers and let as many players into the game as possible. One of the key goals has been to create a fair experience that doesn't penalise players who don’t spend money in the game, as such Nosgoth doesn’t include items, weapons or abilities that are inherently better (aka supremacy goods).
After all, similar accusations were levelled at Soul Reaver by original Blood Omen fans.
Square Enix are slowly but surely destroying every IP I ever loved.
A lot of the in-game content we have in the works for our multiplayer game leverages the LoK IP in very recognisable, respectful and (we hope!) interesting ways - I'm very much looking forward to seeing people's reactions when we come to share what we're currently working on.
I really have to ask, because it seems almost obvious in it's simplicity, but why did you not try to blend the traditional narrative of the LoK games into the new game?
We're open to having more v/o, but it would need to make sense both the the context of the game and the series' lore. Right now, I'm not sure if reducing Kain to an arena announcer would be a good use of the character, but our thinking isn't locked and we're always looking to incorporate fan feedback, so if we could do so in a meaningful way then that may change.
One of the repeated bits of feedback we've received from our Closed Alpha players is to incorporate these into the game somehow, maybe as unlockables in some format as you progress through the game and level up. How we'd go about implementing this remains to be seen, right now we're focused on making the game as stable as possible, improving our matchmaking system and ensuring our core gameplay mechanics are as fair and balanced as we can make them.
As I said, we're still only in Closed Alpha, so we've a long road ahead of us and there's lots of stuff we'd like to explore, so long as there's sufficient demand.Bear in mind that Nosgoth is set in the almost millennium long period during which Raziel is falling down the Abyss, following his apparent execution by Kain at the hands of the Lieutenants and his resurrection as a wraith.
1. http://legacyofkain.wikia.com/wiki/Hand_cannons
2. http://legacyofkain.wikia.com/wiki/Flamethrowers
I'm a *huge* LoK lore geek and we've made a significant effort ensuring Nosgoth ties in seamlessly to the established series' canon.
By all means hate on the game for it not being what you want in terms of gameplay, but our lore is pretty much watertight.Why don't you start a petition or a dummy Kickstarter project? Demonstrating demand is the most sure-fire way of getting us to make what you want us to.
Anyway, we're adding more content to the game that makes it more recognisable to LoK aficionados, it's just that in-game content isn't developed overnight. (I really wish I could share it with you now as it would help my case enormously, but I can't. Sorry!)
I have every confidence we'll reach a level of success because our moment-to-moment gameplay is rock solid and tons of fun, but I suppose only time will tell and only a fool makes cast-iron predictions without access to a Chronoplast.
I mean, the Soul Reaver series is what attracted me to working at Eidos/Square Enix Europe in the first place and I know I'm by no means the only one. There are a lot of fans of the series here, and I do mean beyond people just on the Nosgoth team.
http://legacyofkain.wikia.com/wiki/Legacy_of_Kain:_Dead_Sun
The only comparison I'm making is that people were angry - I'm not commenting about whether or not it was justified.
The in-game store is something we're looking forward to getting player feedback about in Closed Beta, but we're committed to being 10% free of pay-to-win mechanics. We're building a skill-based game.
A good game that wouldn´t have received the hatred if Rare had released a "real" mainline game alongside it.
But I've already more than provided multiple clear examples of why Dead Sun is not a reboot so with that, I think I'm done talking (derailing perhaps) about this.
Hmmm ...better watch what I say...
...BUY OUR STUFF!!!;-)
;-)
EDIT: I've *got* it! Behold, the sarcasm smiley: ;-|
- IGNPS2: So you're originally with Crystal [Dynamics], then?
- Amy: Yeah, I joined in July of 1995 and worked on and off with SK and the rest of the Crystal staff that was working on Blood Omen for I guess a year plus on the game. For anybody that's worried about... I mean, there's a lot of fans that are worried about, kind of, the changing of the guard, I understand that, and I just want them to understand that obviously I'm a fan of the first game, I worked on the first game, I'm committed to it, I'm committed to honoring the franchise, and I don't want them to think we're a bunch of sellouts or something.
- IGNPS2: The conspiracy theorists will always think you are.
- Amy: Yeah, I know. We can't actually be good-intentioned creative people, we have to be a bunch of scheming sellouts. Oh, well. I guess that's more interesting...
If it's the former, which competitive team-based asymmetrical multiplayer free-to-play games would you say look better? I'm eager to see how we could improve - we are still only in Alpha, after all.
...of which I am a proud backer, btw.
Garbage for a team-based, competitive online multiplayer game (of which there are many), or garbage full stop?
We've done our very best to ensure it synchs up with existing canon flawlessly.
Square Enix announces (Legacy of Kain) Nosgoth's microtransaction model and prices[]
That said, while Nosgoth is a free-to-play game, it's not 100% free of charge and we are still hoping to be rewarded for our work. The difference here is that you can play the game for free and then choose the amount of money you want to spend customising and specialising your characters.
A) There aren't "runestone only" weapons / armor / skills.
B) There isn't stuff that costs like 2,000,000 gold and 200 runestones.
STEAM Announcements & Updates 2014 III - Don't Believe The Tags[]
Not until the big chain retail stores die out, and probably not even then.
LTTP: Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver[]
Then play the far more amazing Soul Reaver 2.
Just finished Soul Reaver 2, I'm confused... (SPOILERS INSIDE)[]
So at the end of SR2, Kain didn't let Raziel get absorbed into the Reaver, and this caused a paradox as he should have died then. Okay, gotcha.
But how does this allow the Hylden to break free from the pillars exactly? I thought that was due to Kain's corruption of the pillars, so what has Raziel becoming the Soul Reaver got to do with it?Also, why aren't the Hylden in SR1?
Can anyone clear this up for me? I know there are some big Legacy of Kain fans on this board :P
What I wouldn't give for another Legacy of Kain game.[]
Nosgoth BETA Thread - since it's in steam sale...[]
If you want to see legacy of kain in more modern graphics, this is the place to do it btw. Just wait til the games goes to open beta then release. It is a f2p game with no plan to reset progress even now in closed beta. And the f2p is very generous...
You can rent/purchase any skill or weapon just with in game currency earned by playing.And you get a class unlock every 5th level. I already have every class unlocked and I don't even play a ton. And the class unlocks are permanent. And you even get to unlock some alternate skins just by playing as well, good looking ones imo.
PS: Sorry for necro-ing the thread, it's just been a while since my last post here.
Eurogamer: The Legacy of Kain game that was cancelled three years in[]
What's interesting is that Crystal Dynamics’ senior designer Michael Brinker has said that there's a "50/50 chance" of a new, single-player Legacy of Kain game releasing this generation and the studio has "in-house developers who really want to make that game", so a new entry in the series may still happen.
oBa[]
Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain on PSN?[]
Not sure if Eidos/Crystal Dynamics can ever bring LOK back to the same level as it once was though, they've lost Amy and Richard to Naughty Dog, and Kyle Mannerberg passed away, Jen Fernandez also left Crystal Dynamics, it makes me wonder how many of the key pieces are still with the team.
Don't forget Seth Carus, he was super influential on BO1 and SR1 and in my opinion one of the main reasons SR2 lost a lot of the magic. Amy and Rich get a lot of the spotlight, and well deserved, but Seth was one of the main reasons SR1 was so great.
I like Jen a lot, but I never understood why people like you thought she was a "key piece" of that franchise to the same level of Rich and Amy.As far as key pieces are concerned, Riley Cooper is really about the only one left at Crystal from the original team lineup.
I know they tried to jumpstart a new one a few times, but it never really went anywhere. And with the financial status of Eidos, I really do not see that series being greenlit anytime soon.
Honestly, I think they should sell the rights of the series back to Dennis. (if he would even want it)whatevermort[]
LTTP: Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver 2[]
Square-Enix ask you what do you want in 2013[]
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Black male (non-stereotypical) protagonists in video games?[]
Gein from the cancelled Legacy Of Kain: Dead Sun would have been.
You're just going to have to take it from me that he is.
Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver was released 15 years ago[]
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- http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=997613
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i was wondering how long it would take for something like this to come out.
I hope somebody leaks some videos of other parts of the game. I don't have any, annoyingly, but others who worked on it might have a video of The Temple Of The Whore Saint, which was one of the dungeons. The thing to remember is that this bit is a small chunk of what was essentially Hyrule field - an expanse designed to lead from place to place. The person playing this is really taking their time with a bit of the game that has zero missions - the actual structure was far more Zelda/Soul Reaver than this might appear.
Please don't tell me this was going to be similar to Soul Reaver, with actual platforming, exploration and puzzles.
The combat was very Batmanish, though, only much faster. Like an angry pinball with fatalities.
Man, I want this done in current-gen machines.
Whatever happened to: Legacy of Kain?[]
There have been times (albeit non very public) where games were canceled or sold off to other publishers, so that the original publisher can avoid the loss or offset as much of the early development costs as possible.
I'm certain this is no mere coincidence.Former industry writer and friend to many PR folks from the business
Aren't ideas in such similarity a copyright? And if they were to be used in another game, couldn't that be infringement? People often sign NDA when they leave companies with creative such as this, so as to avoid spilling ideas that belonged elsewhere.
Dead Sun was cancelled. No use crying over it. It would have been very very good - far better than the video suggests, and far better than some people who haven't played it think it would have been. But it was canned, and because of that, Sam, the director, went off and made Her Story, which might be the most interesting narrative game released in years. So that's a good thing.
CD: Legacy of Kain has a '50/50 chance' of coming back[]
EDIT: actually, no. I wouldn't be shocked to see an iOS thing a la that Hitman/Tomb Raider one, but with realm-shifting puzzles. But a full AAA experience? No way.
I'd rather a solid oldschool game like the original than a terrible 3D game.
Why was Legacy Of Kain never revived?[]
Stupid suits.
Nosgoth was Dead Sun's multiplayer, and was never meant to be F2P at that stage, so it was always going to be an awkward fit. Originally, Nosgoth was meant to have a story told ambiently that tied it into the original games - it was meant to be a bridge between them and the world as it was found when Dead Sun started. Not sure if that story stuff was kept.
Though I have to admit the prospect of a Witcher style Kain game makes me tingle in all the right places.
The two writers on the project were Sam Barlow (who wrote Silent Hill: Shattered Memories and then went on to make Her Story) and myself (a twice-shortlisted Arthur C Clarke Award novelist). I think we had a killer story planned, but there we go. Some of the fanbase absolutely hate us because we're not AH, and because we weren't going to write the whole thing in a more archaic form of English.
Credits[]
Thanks to Denis Dyack, dose, Goron2000, Keir "Keir_Eidos" Edmonds, Mama Robotnik, George "Monkeythumbz" Kelion, oBa, James "whatevermort" Smythe, all other users, and NeoGAF.
References[]
- ↑ Legacy of Kain: Defiance... -_- at NeoGAF (by Brobzoid), post #13 (by Denis Dyack)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain: Defiance... -_- at NeoGAF (by Brobzoid), post #18 (by Denis Dyack)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain: Defiance... -_- at NeoGAF (by Brobzoid), post #19 (by Denis Dyack)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain: Defiance... -_- at NeoGAF (by Brobzoid), post #32 (by Denis Dyack)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain: Defiance... -_- at NeoGAF (by Brobzoid), post #42 (by Denis Dyack)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain: Defiance... -_- at NeoGAF (by Brobzoid), post #46 (by Denis Dyack)
- ↑ Some Soul Reaver/Legacy of Kain news at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #26 (by dose)
- ↑ Some Soul Reaver/Legacy of Kain news at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #38 (by dose)
- ↑ Some Soul Reaver/Legacy of Kain news at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #41 (by dose)
- ↑ Some Soul Reaver/Legacy of Kain news at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #66 (by dose)
- ↑ LTTP: Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver 2 at NeoGAF (by Kard8p3), post #22 (by dose)
- ↑ Square Enix registered Legacy of Kain related domain at NeoGAF (by miladesn), post #258 (by dose)
- ↑ Square Enix registered Legacy of Kain related domain at NeoGAF (by miladesn), post #261 (by dose)
- ↑ Square Enix registered Legacy of Kain related domain at NeoGAF (by miladesn), post #265 (by dose)
- ↑ Square Enix confirms new Legacy of Kain game (Nosgoth, multiplayer, not CD/not at E3) at NeoGAF (by zakislam), post #62 (by dose)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain: Dead Sun (updated with E3 2012 Square Enix Teaser and Pre-Boss Video) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #346 (by Goron2000)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain: Dead Sun (updated with E3 2012 Square Enix Teaser and Pre-Boss Video) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #348 (by Goron2000)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain: Dead Sun (updated with E3 2012 Square Enix Teaser and Pre-Boss Video) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #88 (by Keir_Eidos)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain - Cancelled Sequel at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #1 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain - Cancelled Sequel at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #34 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain - Cancelled Sequel at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #37 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain - Cancelled Sequel at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #42 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain - Cancelled Sequel at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #96 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain - Cancelled Sequel at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #97 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain - Cancelled Sequel at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #122 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain - Cancelled Sequel at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #136 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain - Cancelled Sequel at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #141 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain - Cancelled Sequel at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #148 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ The Legacy of Kain - Remembering past games, imagining future ones. at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #1 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ The Legacy of Kain - Remembering past games, imagining future ones. at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #82 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ The Legacy of Kain - Remembering past games, imagining future ones. at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #86 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ The Legacy of Kain - Remembering past games, imagining future ones. at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #89 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ The Legacy of Kain - Remembering past games, imagining future ones. at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #111 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ The Legacy of Kain - Remembering past games, imagining future ones. at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #117 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ The Legacy of Kain - Remembering past games, imagining future ones. at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #125 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ The Legacy of Kain - Remembering past games, imagining future ones. at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #134 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ The Legacy of Kain - Remembering past games, imagining future ones. at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #137 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ The Legacy of Kain - Remembering past games, imagining future ones. at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #145 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ The Legacy of Kain - Remembering past games, imagining future ones. at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #147 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ The Legacy of Kain - Remembering past games, imagining future ones. at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #152 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ The Legacy of Kain - Remembering past games, imagining future ones. at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #156 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ 14 years after release, a massive explorable pirate ship is found in Blood Omen: LOK at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #1 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ 14 years after release, a massive explorable pirate ship is found in Blood Omen: LOK at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #11 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ 14 years after release, a massive explorable pirate ship is found in Blood Omen: LOK at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #27 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ 14 years after release, a massive explorable pirate ship is found in Blood Omen: LOK at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #37 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ 14 years after release, a massive explorable pirate ship is found in Blood Omen: LOK at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #52 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ 14 years after release, a massive explorable pirate ship is found in Blood Omen: LOK at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #58 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ 14 years after release, a massive explorable pirate ship is found in Blood Omen: LOK at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #68 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ 14 years after release, a massive explorable pirate ship is found in Blood Omen: LOK at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #129 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ 14 years after release, a massive explorable pirate ship is found in Blood Omen: LOK at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #134 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ 14 years after release, a massive explorable pirate ship is found in Blood Omen: LOK at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #155 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain: The Dark Prophecy/Blood Omen III (cancelled game) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #1 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain: The Dark Prophecy/Blood Omen III (cancelled game) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #25 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain: The Dark Prophecy/Blood Omen III (cancelled game) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #48 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain: The Dark Prophecy/Blood Omen III (cancelled game) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #53 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain: The Dark Prophecy/Blood Omen III (cancelled game) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #57 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain: The Dark Prophecy/Blood Omen III (cancelled game) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #62 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain: The Dark Prophecy/Blood Omen III (cancelled game) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #63 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain: The Dark Prophecy/Blood Omen III (cancelled game) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #66 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain: The Dark Prophecy/Blood Omen III (cancelled game) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #68 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain: The Dark Prophecy/Blood Omen III (cancelled game) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #69 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain: The Dark Prophecy/Blood Omen III (cancelled game) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #77 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain: The Dark Prophecy/Blood Omen III (cancelled game) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #83 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Kain and Raziel playable in Guardian of Light. at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #1 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Kain and Raziel playable in Guardian of Light. at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #7 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Kain and Raziel playable in Guardian of Light. at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #19 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Kain and Raziel playable in Guardian of Light. at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #37 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Kain and Raziel playable in Guardian of Light. at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #71 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Kain and Raziel playable in Guardian of Light. at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #73 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Kain and Raziel playable in Guardian of Light. at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #77 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Kain and Raziel playable in Guardian of Light. at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #79 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Kain and Raziel playable in Guardian of Light. at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #112 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Kain and Raziel playable in Guardian of Light. at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #117 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Kain and Raziel playable in Guardian of Light. at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #120 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Kain and Raziel playable in Guardian of Light. at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #121 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ "Legacy of Kain: Revenant" or Obsidian Blood/Dead Sun [Square Enix survey rumour] at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #1 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ "Legacy of Kain: Revenant" or Obsidian Blood/Dead Sun [Square Enix survey rumour] at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #33 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ "Legacy of Kain: Revenant" or Obsidian Blood/Dead Sun [Square Enix survey rumour] at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #54 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ "Legacy of Kain: Revenant" or Obsidian Blood/Dead Sun [Square Enix survey rumour] at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #69 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ "Legacy of Kain: Revenant" or Obsidian Blood/Dead Sun [Square Enix survey rumour] at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #102 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ "Legacy of Kain: Revenant" or Obsidian Blood/Dead Sun [Square Enix survey rumour] at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #107 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ "Legacy of Kain: Revenant" or Obsidian Blood/Dead Sun [Square Enix survey rumour] at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #108 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain 6 - The first section of the unreleased game at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #1 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain 6 - The first section of the unreleased game at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #2 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain 6 - The first section of the unreleased game at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #23 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain 6 - The first section of the unreleased game at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #42 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain 6 - The first section of the unreleased game at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #53 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain 6 - The first section of the unreleased game at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #77 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain 6 - The first section of the unreleased game at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #79 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain 6 - The first section of the unreleased game at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #89 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain 6 - The first section of the unreleased game at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #102 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain 6 - The first section of the unreleased game at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #104 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain 6 - The first section of the unreleased game at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #105 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain 6 - The first section of the unreleased game at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #108 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain 6 - The first section of the unreleased game at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #112 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ A post-mortem of Silicon Knights (Mama Robotnik research thread) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #1 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ A post-mortem of Silicon Knights (Mama Robotnik research thread) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #2 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ A post-mortem of Silicon Knights (Mama Robotnik research thread) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #3 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ A post-mortem of Silicon Knights (Mama Robotnik research thread) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #4 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ A post-mortem of Silicon Knights (Mama Robotnik research thread) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #5 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ A post-mortem of Silicon Knights (Mama Robotnik research thread) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #210 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ A post-mortem of Silicon Knights (Mama Robotnik research thread) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #275 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ A post-mortem of Silicon Knights (Mama Robotnik research thread) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #277 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Some Soul Reaver/Legacy of Kain news at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #1 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Some Soul Reaver/Legacy of Kain news at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #2 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Some Soul Reaver/Legacy of Kain news at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #51 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Some Soul Reaver/Legacy of Kain news at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #53 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Some Soul Reaver/Legacy of Kain news at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #62 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Some Soul Reaver/Legacy of Kain news at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #65 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Some Soul Reaver/Legacy of Kain news at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #74 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Some Soul Reaver/Legacy of Kain news at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #75 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Soul Reaver may have been the most overly ambitious game ever. (research thread) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #1 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Soul Reaver may have been the most overly ambitious game ever. (research thread) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #2 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Soul Reaver may have been the most overly ambitious game ever. (research thread) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #115 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Soul Reaver may have been the most overly ambitious game ever. (research thread) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #145 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Soul Reaver may have been the most overly ambitious game ever. (research thread) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #169 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Soul Reaver may have been the most overly ambitious game ever. (research thread) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #197 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Soul Reaver may have been the most overly ambitious game ever. (research thread) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #198 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Soul Reaver may have been the most overly ambitious game ever. (research thread) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #202 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Soul Reaver may have been the most overly ambitious game ever. (research thread) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #204 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Soul Reaver may have been the most overly ambitious game ever. (research thread) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #207 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Soul Reaver may have been the most overly ambitious game ever. (research thread) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #213 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Soul Reaver may have been the most overly ambitious game ever. (research thread) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #283 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ War for Nosgoth (Legacy of Kain) in AMD Drivers; "Nosgoth" in Steam DB [Psyonix Dev?] at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #1 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ War for Nosgoth (Legacy of Kain) in AMD Drivers; "Nosgoth" in Steam DB [Psyonix Dev?] at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #39 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ War for Nosgoth (Legacy of Kain) in AMD Drivers; "Nosgoth" in Steam DB [Psyonix Dev?] at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #70 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ War for Nosgoth (Legacy of Kain) in AMD Drivers; "Nosgoth" in Steam DB [Psyonix Dev?] at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #72 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ War for Nosgoth (Legacy of Kain) in AMD Drivers; "Nosgoth" in Steam DB [Psyonix Dev?] at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #75 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ War for Nosgoth (Legacy of Kain) in AMD Drivers; "Nosgoth" in Steam DB [Psyonix Dev?] at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #82 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ The 10 Cancelled Legacy of Kains (Mama Robotnik Research Thread) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #1 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ The 10 Cancelled Legacy of Kains (Mama Robotnik Research Thread) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #2 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ The 10 Cancelled Legacy of Kains (Mama Robotnik Research Thread) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #3 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ The 10 Cancelled Legacy of Kains (Mama Robotnik Research Thread) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #60 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ The 10 Cancelled Legacy of Kains (Mama Robotnik Research Thread) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #71 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ The 10 Cancelled Legacy of Kains (Mama Robotnik Research Thread) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #102 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ The 10 Cancelled Legacy of Kains (Mama Robotnik Research Thread) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #214 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ The 10 Cancelled Legacy of Kains (Mama Robotnik Research Thread) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #215 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ The 10 Cancelled Legacy of Kains (Mama Robotnik Research Thread) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #225 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Nosgoth (Square Enix/Psyonix, Legacy of Kain, F2P) Announcement Trailer at NeoGAF (by Musiol), post #336 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ My visit to Square Enix London (Legacy of Kain related) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #1 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ My visit to Square Enix London (Legacy of Kain related) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #22 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ My visit to Square Enix London (Legacy of Kain related) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #33 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain: Dead Sun (updated with E3 2012 Square Enix Teaser and Pre-Boss Video) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #1 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain: Dead Sun (updated with E3 2012 Square Enix Teaser and Pre-Boss Video) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #230 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain: Dead Sun (updated with E3 2012 Square Enix Teaser and Pre-Boss Video) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #265 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain: Dead Sun (updated with E3 2012 Square Enix Teaser and Pre-Boss Video) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #320 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain: Dead Sun (updated with E3 2012 Square Enix Teaser and Pre-Boss Video) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #322 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain: Dead Sun (updated with E3 2012 Square Enix Teaser and Pre-Boss Video) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #361 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain Dead Sun (cancelled) – Story information at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #1 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain Dead Sun (cancelled) – Story information at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #5 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain Dead Sun (cancelled) – Story information at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #30 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain Dead Sun (cancelled) – Story information at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #31 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain Dead Sun (cancelled) – Story information at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #41 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain Dead Sun (cancelled) – Story information at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #42 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain Dead Sun (cancelled) – Story information at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #48 (by Mama Robotnik)
- ↑ The 10 Cancelled Legacy of Kains (Mama Robotnik Research Thread) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #179 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ The 10 Cancelled Legacy of Kains (Mama Robotnik Research Thread) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #191 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ The 10 Cancelled Legacy of Kains (Mama Robotnik Research Thread) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #198 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ The 10 Cancelled Legacy of Kains (Mama Robotnik Research Thread) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #200 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ The 10 Cancelled Legacy of Kains (Mama Robotnik Research Thread) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #219 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ The 10 Cancelled Legacy of Kains (Mama Robotnik Research Thread) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #234 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain: Dead Sun (PS4, cancelled) / Legacy of Kain: Nosgoth (PC, upcoming) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #92 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain: Dead Sun (PS4, cancelled) / Legacy of Kain: Nosgoth (PC, upcoming) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #117 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain: Dead Sun (PS4, cancelled) / Legacy of Kain: Nosgoth (PC, upcoming) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #127 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain: Dead Sun (PS4, cancelled) / Legacy of Kain: Nosgoth (PC, upcoming) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #158 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth (Square Enix/Psyonix, Legacy of Kain, F2P) Announcement Trailer at NeoGAF (by Musiol), post #126 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth (Square Enix/Psyonix, Legacy of Kain, F2P) Announcement Trailer at NeoGAF (by Musiol), post #137 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth (Square Enix/Psyonix, Legacy of Kain, F2P) Announcement Trailer at NeoGAF (by Musiol), post #177 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth (Square Enix/Psyonix, Legacy of Kain, F2P) Announcement Trailer at NeoGAF (by Musiol), post #187 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth (Square Enix/Psyonix, Legacy of Kain, F2P) Announcement Trailer at NeoGAF (by Musiol), post #215 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth (Square Enix/Psyonix, Legacy of Kain, F2P) Announcement Trailer at NeoGAF (by Musiol), post #226 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth (Square Enix/Psyonix, Legacy of Kain, F2P) Announcement Trailer at NeoGAF (by Musiol), post #230 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth (Square Enix/Psyonix, Legacy of Kain, F2P) Announcement Trailer at NeoGAF (by Musiol), post #247 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth (Square Enix/Psyonix, Legacy of Kain, F2P) Announcement Trailer at NeoGAF (by Musiol), post #253 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth (Square Enix/Psyonix, Legacy of Kain, F2P) Announcement Trailer at NeoGAF (by Musiol), post #260 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth (Square Enix/Psyonix, Legacy of Kain, F2P) Announcement Trailer at NeoGAF (by Musiol), post #264 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth (Square Enix/Psyonix, Legacy of Kain, F2P) Announcement Trailer at NeoGAF (by Musiol), post #270 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth (Square Enix/Psyonix, Legacy of Kain, F2P) Announcement Trailer at NeoGAF (by Musiol), post #288 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth (Square Enix/Psyonix, Legacy of Kain, F2P) Announcement Trailer at NeoGAF (by Musiol), post #292 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth (Square Enix/Psyonix, Legacy of Kain, F2P) Announcement Trailer at NeoGAF (by Musiol), post #298 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth (Square Enix/Psyonix, Legacy of Kain, F2P) Announcement Trailer at NeoGAF (by Musiol), post #301 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth (Square Enix/Psyonix, Legacy of Kain, F2P) Announcement Trailer at NeoGAF (by Musiol), post #307 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth (Square Enix/Psyonix, Legacy of Kain, F2P) Announcement Trailer at NeoGAF (by Musiol), post #311 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth (Square Enix/Psyonix, Legacy of Kain, F2P) Announcement Trailer at NeoGAF (by Musiol), post #315 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth (Square Enix/Psyonix, Legacy of Kain, F2P) Announcement Trailer at NeoGAF (by Musiol), post #322 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth (Square Enix/Psyonix, Legacy of Kain, F2P) Announcement Trailer at NeoGAF (by Musiol), post #324 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth (Square Enix/Psyonix, Legacy of Kain, F2P) Announcement Trailer at NeoGAF (by Musiol), post #331 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth (Square Enix/Psyonix, Legacy of Kain, F2P) Announcement Trailer at NeoGAF (by Musiol), post #334 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth (Square Enix/Psyonix, Legacy of Kain, F2P) Announcement Trailer at NeoGAF (by Musiol), post #337 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth (Square Enix/Psyonix, Legacy of Kain, F2P) Announcement Trailer at NeoGAF (by Musiol), post #339 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth (Square Enix/Psyonix, Legacy of Kain, F2P) Announcement Trailer at NeoGAF (by Musiol), post #346 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth (Square Enix/Psyonix, Legacy of Kain, F2P) Announcement Trailer at NeoGAF (by Musiol), post #349 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth (Square Enix/Psyonix, Legacy of Kain, F2P) Announcement Trailer at NeoGAF (by Musiol), post #350 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth (Square Enix/Psyonix, Legacy of Kain, F2P) Announcement Trailer at NeoGAF (by Musiol), post #355 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth (Square Enix/Psyonix, Legacy of Kain, F2P) Announcement Trailer at NeoGAF (by Musiol), post #357 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth (Square Enix/Psyonix, Legacy of Kain, F2P) Announcement Trailer at NeoGAF (by Musiol), post #360 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth (Square Enix/Psyonix, Legacy of Kain, F2P) Announcement Trailer at NeoGAF (by Musiol), post #364 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth (Square Enix/Psyonix, Legacy of Kain, F2P) Announcement Trailer at NeoGAF (by Musiol), post #380 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth (Square Enix/Psyonix, Legacy of Kain, F2P) Announcement Trailer at NeoGAF (by Musiol), post #382 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth (Square Enix/Psyonix, Legacy of Kain, F2P) Announcement Trailer at NeoGAF (by Musiol), post #388 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth (Square Enix/Psyonix, Legacy of Kain, F2P) Announcement Trailer at NeoGAF (by Musiol), post #391 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth (Square Enix/Psyonix, Legacy of Kain, F2P) Announcement Trailer at NeoGAF (by Musiol), post #394 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth (Square Enix/Psyonix, Legacy of Kain, F2P) Announcement Trailer at NeoGAF (by Musiol), post #398 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth (Square Enix/Psyonix, Legacy of Kain, F2P) Announcement Trailer at NeoGAF (by Musiol), post #407 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth (Square Enix/Psyonix, Legacy of Kain, F2P) Announcement Trailer at NeoGAF (by Musiol), post #408 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth (Square Enix/Psyonix, Legacy of Kain, F2P) Announcement Trailer at NeoGAF (by Musiol), post #413 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth (Square Enix/Psyonix, Legacy of Kain, F2P) Announcement Trailer at NeoGAF (by Musiol), post #414 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth (Square Enix/Psyonix, Legacy of Kain, F2P) Announcement Trailer at NeoGAF (by Musiol), post #418 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth (Square Enix/Psyonix, Legacy of Kain, F2P) Announcement Trailer at NeoGAF (by Musiol), post #423 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ My visit to Square Enix London (Legacy of Kain related) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #26 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth - Hunters Class Background Revealed at NeoGAF (by Darkmakaimura), post #6 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth - Hunters Class Background Revealed at NeoGAF (by Darkmakaimura), post #15 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth Gameplay Premiere at NeoGAF (by Acidote), post #85 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth Gameplay Premiere at NeoGAF (by Acidote), post #91 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth Gameplay Premiere at NeoGAF (by Acidote), post #100 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth Gameplay Premiere at NeoGAF (by Acidote), post #104 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth Gameplay Premiere at NeoGAF (by Acidote), post #106 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth Gameplay Premiere at NeoGAF (by Acidote), post #108 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth Gameplay Premiere at NeoGAF (by Acidote), post #112 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth Gameplay Premiere at NeoGAF (by Acidote), post #117 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth Gameplay Premiere at NeoGAF (by Acidote), post #120 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth Gameplay Premiere at NeoGAF (by Acidote), post #131 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth Gameplay Premiere at NeoGAF (by Acidote), post #133 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth Gameplay Premiere at NeoGAF (by Acidote), post #137 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth Gameplay Premiere at NeoGAF (by Acidote), post #141 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth Gameplay Premiere at NeoGAF (by Acidote), post #144 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth Gameplay Premiere at NeoGAF (by Acidote), post #148 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth Gameplay Premiere at NeoGAF (by Acidote), post #149 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth Gameplay Premiere at NeoGAF (by Acidote), post #153 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth Gameplay Premiere at NeoGAF (by Acidote), post #162 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth Gameplay Premiere at NeoGAF (by Acidote), post #169 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth Gameplay Premiere at NeoGAF (by Acidote), post #181 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth Gameplay Premiere at NeoGAF (by Acidote), post #188 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth Gameplay Premiere at NeoGAF (by Acidote), post #191 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth Gameplay Premiere at NeoGAF (by Acidote), post #195 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth Gameplay Premiere at NeoGAF (by Acidote), post #196 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth Gameplay Premiere at NeoGAF (by Acidote), post #200 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth Gameplay Premiere at NeoGAF (by Acidote), post #211 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth Gameplay Premiere at NeoGAF (by Acidote), post #220 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth Gameplay Premiere at NeoGAF (by Acidote), post #226 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth Gameplay Premiere at NeoGAF (by Acidote), post #233 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth Gameplay Premiere at NeoGAF (by Acidote), post #234 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth Gameplay Premiere at NeoGAF (by Acidote), post #239 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth Gameplay Premiere at NeoGAF (by Acidote), post #242 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth Gameplay Premiere at NeoGAF (by Acidote), post #245 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth Gameplay Premiere at NeoGAF (by Acidote), post #252 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth Gameplay Premiere at NeoGAF (by Acidote), post #256 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth Gameplay Premiere at NeoGAF (by Acidote), post #261 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth Gameplay Premiere at NeoGAF (by Acidote), post #263 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth Gameplay Premiere at NeoGAF (by Acidote), post #265 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth Gameplay Premiere at NeoGAF (by Acidote), post #267 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth Gameplay Premiere at NeoGAF (by Acidote), post #271 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth Gameplay Premiere at NeoGAF (by Acidote), post #273 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Square Enix announces (Legacy of Kain) Nosgoth's microtransaction model and prices at NeoGAF (by Nirolak), post #30 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Square Enix announces (Legacy of Kain) Nosgoth's microtransaction model and prices at NeoGAF (by Nirolak), post #35 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Square Enix announces (Legacy of Kain) Nosgoth's microtransaction model and prices at NeoGAF (by Nirolak), post #46 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ STEAM Announcements & Updates 2014 III - Don't Believe The Tags at NeoGAF (by MRORANGE), post #2195 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ LTTP: Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver at NeoGAF (by AHA-Lambda), post #19 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Just finished Soul Reaver 2, I'm confused... (SPOILERS INSIDE) at NeoGAF (by AHA-Lambda), post #6 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ What I wouldn't give for another Legacy of Kain game. at NeoGAF (by Mineshaft_Gap), post #9 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Nosgoth BETA Thread - since it's in steam sale... at NeoGAF (by Thrakier), post #41 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Eurogamer: The Legacy of Kain game that was cancelled three years in at NeoGAF (by Mr. Tibbs), post #34 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Eurogamer: The Legacy of Kain game that was cancelled three years in at NeoGAF (by Mr. Tibbs), post #45 (by Monkeythumbz)
- ↑ Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain on PSN? at NeoGAF (by prodystopian), post #56 (by oBa)
- ↑ Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain on PSN? at NeoGAF (by prodystopian), post #58 (by oBa)
- ↑ CD: LTTP: Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver 2 at NeoGAF (by Kard8p3), post #36 (by whatevermort)
- ↑ Square-Enix ask you what do you want in 2013 at NeoGAF (by GhostTrick), post #291 (by whatevermort)
- ↑ Square Enix registered Legacy of Kain related domain at NeoGAF (by miladesn), post #5 (by whatevermort)
- ↑ Square Enix registered Legacy of Kain related domain at NeoGAF (by miladesn), post #21 (by whatevermort)
- ↑ Square Enix registered Legacy of Kain related domain at NeoGAF (by miladesn), post #248 (by whatevermort)
- ↑ Black male (non-stereotypical) protagonists in video games? at NeoGAF (by Vermillion), post #262 (by whatevermort)
- ↑ Black male (non-stereotypical) protagonists in video games? at NeoGAF (by Vermillion), post #266 (by whatevermort)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver was released 15 years ago at NeoGAF (by Tizoc), post #28 (by whatevermort)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain: Dead Sun (updated with E3 2012 Square Enix Teaser and Pre-Boss Video) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #29 (by whatevermort)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain: Dead Sun (updated with E3 2012 Square Enix Teaser and Pre-Boss Video) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #68 (by whatevermort)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain: Dead Sun (updated with E3 2012 Square Enix Teaser and Pre-Boss Video) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #89 (by whatevermort)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain: Dead Sun (updated with E3 2012 Square Enix Teaser and Pre-Boss Video) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #134 (by whatevermort)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain: Dead Sun (updated with E3 2012 Square Enix Teaser and Pre-Boss Video) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #174 (by whatevermort)
- ↑ Legacy of Kain: Dead Sun (updated with E3 2012 Square Enix Teaser and Pre-Boss Video) at NeoGAF (by Mama Robotnik), post #196 (by whatevermort)
- ↑ Whatever happened to: Legacy of Kain? at NeoGAF (by MadClacker), post #21 (by whatevermort)
- ↑ Whatever happened to: Legacy of Kain? at NeoGAF (by MadClacker), post #30 (by whatevermort)
- ↑ Whatever happened to: Legacy of Kain? at NeoGAF (by MadClacker), post #35 (by whatevermort)
- ↑ CD: Legacy of Kain has a '50/50 chance' of coming back at NeoGAF (by AHA-Lambda), post #33 (by whatevermort)
- ↑ CD: Legacy of Kain has a '50/50 chance' of coming back at NeoGAF (by AHA-Lambda), post #42 (by whatevermort)
- ↑ CD: Why was Legacy Of Kain never revived? at NeoGAF (by Exodust), post #111 (by whatevermort)
